State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial
- Thread starter Elliot G.
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Everybody will switch to horns if they choose their systems from misleading cell phone videos. Recording a good stereo presentation is a fake process, but highly directional speakers suffer less than common box speakers having typical dispersion and creating a great soundstage from proper reflections. An high quality large bandwidth system will sound subjectively a lot more unbalanced than a more reduced bandwidth one in a cellphone video.
It is not a question of a recording being honest or dishonest. Objectively it is a fake process, stereo microphones are built to record physical sound fields, not the illusionary sound fields created by two speakers.
Wilson speakers are known to create a bipolar feeling in the audiophile community - an love and hate relationship. In general , I found that people who listened to them in very good set ups love them, those who listened to poorly set up demos hate them. Listening to them in a cellphone video robs all the fine aspects that due to proper control of distortion, timing and directivity can create an outstanding listening experience in real life. Probably the same for many other great speakers.
If you compare just apples you can get an idea about the fruit relative quality tasting jam. But do not expect to do the same comparing orange jam with apple jam.
You have hit the nail on the head Francisco, add the limiting capabilities in the bass of the system playing the video compared to the original system.Everybody will switch to horns if they choose their systems from misleading cell phone videos. Recording a good stereo presentation is a fake process, but highly directional speakers suffer less than common box speakers having typical dispersion and creating a great soundstage from proper reflections. An high quality large bandwidth system will sound subjectively a lot more unbalanced than a more reduced bandwidth one in a cellphone video.
It is not a question of a recording being honest or dishonest. Objectively it is a fake process, stereo microphones are built to record physical sound fields, not the illusionary sound fields created by two speakers.
Wilson speakers are known to create a bipolar feeling in the audiophile community - an love and hate relationship. In general , I found that people who listened to them in very good set ups love them, those who listened to poorly set up demos hate them. Listening to them in a cellphone video robs all the fine aspects that due to proper control of distortion, timing and directivity can create an outstanding listening experience in real life. Probably the same for many other great speakers.
If you compare just apples you can get an idea about the fruit relative quality tasting jam. But do not expect to do the same comparing orange jam with apple jam.
Everybody will switch to horns if they choose their systems from misleading cell phone videos. Recording a good stereo presentation is a fake process, but highly directional speakers suffer less than common box speakers having typical dispersion and creating a great soundstage from proper reflections. An high quality large bandwidth system will sound subjectively a lot more unbalanced than a more reduced bandwidth one in a cellphone video.
It is not a question of a recording being honest or dishonest. Objectively it is a fake process, stereo microphones are built to record physical sound fields, not the illusionary sound fields created by two speakers.
Wilson speakers are known to create a bipolar feeling in the audiophile community - an love and hate relationship. In general , I found that people who listened to them in very good set ups love them, those who listened to poorly set up demos hate them. Listening to them in a cellphone video robs all the fine aspects that due to proper control of distortion, timing and directivity can create an outstanding listening experience in real life. Probably the same for many other great speakers.
If you compare just apples you can get an idea about the fruit relative quality tasting jam. But do not expect to do the same comparing orange jam with apple jam.
All good points, Francisco.
Yet I haven’t heard that many good sounding horn videos either. Yes, some, but not a higher percentage than good sounding cone speaker videos, I would roughly guess.
You have hit the nail on the head Francisco, add the limiting capabilities in the bass of the system playing the video compared to the original system.
Yes, you can mostly forget about real bass.
We should blank out the picture on the videos until people have publicly voiced their opinions. Then we can reveal whether they were listening to horns on not. That should separate the men from the minions.
And trow in a couple of recordings made with Bose speakers for good measure, all with blank pictures.
I have to say I am a recovering you tube audio equipment watchaholic
what i have learnt is, it’s hard to judge bass from a mobile phone, which may affect balance of full range equipment
many of the professional recordings sound very good , and the quality of the music can be very good
most show videos are pretty awful, but a few are pretty good
with my little you tube system with smart tv, upsampler chord Dave and quad electrostatics I get very good sound at times with quality consistent with the dedication to the recording
I also watch music videos of classical performances which can be very enjoyable, or bloody awful
I have no idea what the state of the industry is, other than there is a lot of content on YouTube !
what i have learnt is, it’s hard to judge bass from a mobile phone, which may affect balance of full range equipment
many of the professional recordings sound very good , and the quality of the music can be very good
most show videos are pretty awful, but a few are pretty good
with my little you tube system with smart tv, upsampler chord Dave and quad electrostatics I get very good sound at times with quality consistent with the dedication to the recording
I also watch music videos of classical performances which can be very enjoyable, or bloody awful
I have no idea what the state of the industry is, other than there is a lot of content on YouTube !
What speakers are you switching to now that your Wilsons are gone? Are these ones going to be driven properly by your Lamms, or still the same same?
I think it is an interesting point raised earlier about whether horns sound better when recorded for you tube
the one I own are CD horns, and have excellent dispersion, they pretty well sound excellent everywhere in the room
Where I listened in you tube to cone speakers set up with good mics and careful recording they can sound very good, with often good bass, however more casual recordings i find it hard to think of one that impressed me
to be honest though since none of these systems I have actually heard, it’s hard to know if they are sonically representative, my own flutter with recording my systems , my limited experience was the iphone was pretty terrible, a proper mic actually gave a surprisingly good representation, and that I really suck at videos, and appreciate the effort it takes to make a good one !
I love these mobile phone recordings of cones - Vienna's Gryphon Tidai system (btw I am aware you don't like recordings using mobile phones as compared to mics, but that is a different point)
My friend's Avalon system, recordings with Annie Fischer playing Liszt, Campoli playing Mendelssohn, Ginette Neveu playing Falla Danse (poor pressing, as mentioned in the write up)
Soulution preamp, KR VA 200, Brinkmann Balance, Allnic, Dalby – Zero Distortion
zero-distortion.org
That aside, as told to everyone multiple times, post recordings you think are representative of the system. I don't post recordings if I play back to myself and think it is not representative of what I heard. There are poor videos of everything, including horns. And good videos can be made. Like I said, if someone wants to take responsibility and make recordings even like the ones above on their cone systems or a friend's or a dealer's, please do.
There is one more good mobile recording I recently saw with high end cone gear playing very good piano, but not on youtube. I am planning to visit him, because if I see a good video of gear I don't know, my personality is such that I visit to check it out, rather than complain (blushing shyly here at being the standout). I will add it after my visit if representative
My Munich 2019 write up which has 3 cones playing Royal Ballet LP, shows the Verity Audio as the most natural sounding. This is the feedback I received in 2019. This is what I can confirm was in person at the show for me. So, I posted those because they reflected the in room listening in show conditions that weekend. In fact that is the first time I ever recorded and playing back the various videos converted me to keep recording.
Munich 2019 Video Coverage – Zero Distortion
zero-distortion.org
Note: On youtube it is very difficult to find cone systems playing Oistrakh, Heifetz, etc, or Beethoven, Schubert, etc - easy to find cuddly cuddly audiophile stuff. I hope some of these guys not only change their gear but also change what they listen to following these videos.
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My real opinion of the industry is that its static due to basically the same tech used over the past 60 years .
Real progress would be something like hologram projections and a completely different way of recording the musical signal and reproducing it.
Complete new tech as we see in a lot of other industries.
Ps we have seen the digital revolution off course in the eighties that was completely new tech , but whether this was better is still highly debated
Ps micro i m curious as to what you buy next .
May be it would be worth to try the ML 3 /Ll 1 sign on a different transducer
Real progress would be something like hologram projections and a completely different way of recording the musical signal and reproducing it.
Complete new tech as we see in a lot of other industries.
Ps we have seen the digital revolution off course in the eighties that was completely new tech , but whether this was better is still highly debated
Ps micro i m curious as to what you buy next .
May be it would be worth to try the ML 3 /Ll 1 sign on a different transducer
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Hi WBF!
I prefer being a lurker, but as said by others, this thread has been way too entertaining. I'm realizing if I'm not paying constant attention to it I'll probably get left behind and never catch up.
My two cents to the topic - Yes, it's kind of disappointing mediums like YouTube don't give the full and accurate picture of the vantage point of the observer, but I think one must give credit to the strides as far as video and audio quality via these social media platforms and hardware used for recording has done in the last decade. I think its safe to say it's an inevitability as far as industry direction
and will only get better.
Currently for me YouTube is a tool for which I get a gist what to expect as far as sound characteristics of the components being viewed even though that sound may be somewhat distorted from reality.
A rather crappy analogy, but at an early age after viewing enough people one can make accurate calls they are viewing a person or not, whether it be looking at a silhouette, viewed through through stained glass, or even a glimpse from ones peripheral.
I am more than aware of how my TV, phone, or laptop colors/distorts the sound but I am able to make educated generalizations of that aural image in my head. I also tend to find myself viewing multiple videos of
particular components in order to better formalize in my mind what that playback is like in person.
Anyways, I totally had to take up the challenge! After all the talk it was more of an experimental headphone comparison for me(actual recording vs home system video), but it motivated me to post my first YouTube video albeit unlisted. Not saying its state of the art(definitely not) or it sets a standard, only that I've put some basic work into it(always have more to go), and it give me countless hours of pure audio bliss! I think its pretty decent but critique all you want, I have tough skin!
I have to agree it’s my feeling also, but I am no expert on the industry
if you look at amplifier designs they seem to be evolutionary rather than revolutionary
Dacs seem to have reached technical zeniths that may not be shared with aesthetic zeniths in some quarters
what does seem pervasive at least in the more expensive gear is actually old technology , tubes, analog replay and horns/headphones , which seems contrary to other technologies , eg phone and TVs which we don’t see people going back to older technology
cars might be the one area where there are some similarity with hifi, in that some older models are much revered and sought after
perhaps this is because there is a “taste element” which is not so manifest in say TVs they all these days seem to look the same big flat screens, but maybe I am mistaken?
I should add the one major advance to me is the ability to view concerts these days I could never get to see in person in high quality
the digital concert hall of the Berlin philharmonic is wonderful ,
the digital concert hall of the Berlin philharmonic is wonderful ,
Welcome
i don’t think the idea of the videos is to critique, but to experience other systems
peterA videos have been highly enjoyable, because they are a little window on his system which is quite unique , some times I feel like I am in his listening position in his room
I think it is too complex a process to say this system is good or bad imho
thank you for taking the trouble to share
In phones indeed there has been massive development .
Same like TV s
Cone tech is still a coil attached to a membrane moving in a magnet gap .
People even go back to older designs and conclude an old paper membrane still sounds more natural then the latest high tech ultra stiff composite .
Developments in tube amps seem to be a better capacitator .
While often claiming old tubes sound better , lol.
Or a "new" alnico magnet in a cone transducer
Afaik alnico was already in use in the fifties / sixties.
MBL is may be the most revolutionary transducer design whether you like it or not
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