Stillpoint's on Wilson Alexandria X-2.2

[MadFloyd]

OK. I can relate to that. My system is on a suspended floor where I had all the floor joists doubled up when I had the IRS-V installed. Should I have had them tripled or quadrupled?? There is a limit to the number of beams you can add, or should I have just added another 600 sq ft room to the house on a slab? Should I have moved? Some things become impractical.

On long sustained extremely deep organ notes, the floor starts to do sympathetic vibrations you can feel when standing or sitting in an uncushioned chair, but it takes time for enough energy to be built up to make these sympathetic vibrations. This does not happen with bass drum, tympani or bass guitar or even deep tuba notes. The long sustained deepest organ notes is the only instance where I have any room issues, but since it is the woofer cones moving the air, not the cabinet vibrating causing the effect. I don't see how stillpoints will do any better than the original Wilson spikes to minimize the problem.

I find the spikes transfer the energy to the floor and cause it to vibrate. I use Herbies Audio Lab decoupling gliders for this reason.

 

[rbbert]

I find the spikes transfer the energy to the floor and cause it to vibrate. I use Herbies Audio Lab decoupling gliders for this reason.

Gary Koh's thread on speaker coupling/decoupling should be read by all. As usual, I've lost the link but I hope someone can post it. In brief, his conclusions support the use of something like the Stillpoints as opposed to spikes, even with the decoupling gliders (although that is better than spikes alone). However, as always the proof is in the listening, and dismissing without listening something which has good scientific support seems ill-advised at best.

 

[GaryProtein]

Gary Koh's thread on speaker coupling/decoupling should be read by all. As usual, I've lost the link but I hope someone can post it. In brief, his conclusions support the use of something like the Stillpoints as opposed to spikes, even with the decoupling gliders (although that is better than spikes alone). However, as always the proof is in the listening, and dismissing without listening something which has good scientific support seems ill-advised at best.

I think you have to look for it!

I would like to know what Gary Koh has to say about this.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I would suggest a thick slab of hard stone under decoupling devices , I use 40 mm thick 450 mm by 450 mm flattened /sanded granit , it works great on " unstable" floors like wood /carpet .
The ultra flat base makes everything easy /stable to adjust as well, plus it lifts the soundstage a little if desired
Under the base one can put felt against scratching

 

[LL21]

Gary Koh's thread on speaker coupling/decoupling should be read by all. As usual, I've lost the link but I hope someone can post it. In brief, his conclusions support the use of something like the Stillpoints as opposed to spikes, even with the decoupling gliders (although that is better than spikes alone). However, as always the proof is in the listening, and dismissing without listening something which has good scientific support seems ill-advised at best.

I think you have to look for it!

I would like to know what Gary Koh has to say about this.

Here it is:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ing-with-particular-reference-to-loudspeakers

 

[rbbert]

Does anyone know if it matters which end of the Stillpoints is up? I know you can't thread them into the speakers if they are "upside down", but is there a difference in the sound? LL21, didn't you experiment with this?

 

[GaryProtein]

I would suggest a thick slab of hard stone under decoupling devices , I use 40 mm thick 450 mm by 450 mm flattened /sanded granit , it works great on " unstable" floors like wood /carpet .
The ultra flat base makes everything easy /stable to adjust as well, plus it lifts the soundstage a little if desired
Under the base one can put felt against scratching

Maybe it's me, but it is hard to imagine anything being placed under a 700 pound speaker that IN REALITY de-couples it, or makes the floor NOT "think" a 700 pound speaker is sitting on it.


LL21, thank you for the link.

 

[rbbert]

I don't know about the big speakers in the current Genesis line-up, but I know that most or all of the "lower" priced floorstanders use some sort of ball-bearing decoupling suspension, as do all the bigger NOLA's.

 

[andromedaaudio]

What a spike or a ballbearing arrangement usually does is limiting the contact area between the floor and the speaker , having this done in a stable solid manner adds to the performance imo , I am not talking of 700 pounds speakers , there the differences /advantages are probably less , I work a lot with rotating light and heavy machinery and weight combined with stable platforms add to the anti vibration solution .

Maybe it's me, but it is hard to imagine anything being placed under a 700 pound speaker that IN REALITY de-couples it, or makes the floor NOT "think" a 700 pound speaker is sitting on it.


LL21, thank you for the link.

 

[LL21]

Does anyone know if it matters which end of the Stillpoints is up? I know you can't thread them into the speakers if they are "upside down", but is there a difference in the sound? LL21, didn't you experiment with this?

Hi...yes I have tried it where I can and also spoken with the manufacturer about this. When under a component, I preferred wider base down on floor and narrow side under the component. My fav is HRS nimbus coupler on top of the narrow side of Ultra 5 and directly under the component.

However, when on top of components, it is a little different...I did the reverse and placed a weight on top. Difference was not huge but it was marginally more to my liking this way. Not sure why. distributor said you have to experiment.

 

[MadFloyd]

I would suggest a thick slab of hard stone under decoupling devices , I use 40 mm thick 450 mm by 450 mm flattened /sanded granit , it works great on " unstable" floors like wood /carpet .
The ultra flat base makes everything easy /stable to adjust as well, plus it lifts the soundstage a little if desired
Under the base one can put felt against scratching

Changing the distance between the speaker and the floor does change the sonics (especially in the bass region) which may or may not be desirable.

 

[zbub]

Currently I have a set of Finite Elemente Cerabase under my Alexandria 2s. I would say with the spikes you get a little more definition but with the Cerabase the sound is more surefooted and more engaging. The perceived increase in soundstage could have something to do with this, but soundstaging is never an important attribute I listen for but I preferred the speakers with Cerabase underneath. Have not tried Stillpoints under the speakers, but I do have a set under my FM amp so I might try them under the Wilsons one of these days.

 

[LL21]

Currently I have a set of Finite Elemente Cerabase under my Alexandria 2s. I would say with the spikes you get a little more definition but with the Cerabase the sound is more surefooted and more engaging. The perceived increase in soundstage could have something to do with this, but soundstaging is never an important attribute I listen for but I preferred the speakers with Cerabase underneath. Have not tried Stillpoints under the speakers, but I do have a set under my FM amp so I might try them under the Wilsons one of these days.

Wow...sounds like you have quite a nice system...would love to know more if you don't mind. How are your cerabases attached to the X2s by the way? Do they screw in or sit underneath? If sitting underneath, did you put them under the speaker or under the diode? I think xv1/turntable has his ultra SS sitting under the diode of his Maxx3s. Most have screwed them in (incl me).

 

[Kingsrule]

You can screw them into the speaker or diode or have them sit under the speaker or diode so there are 4 different possibilities.......

 

[LL21]

You can screw them into the speaker or diode or have them sit under the speaker or diode so there are 4 different possibilities.......

Thanks! Good to know. ZHub which way have you set them up?

 

[zbub]

Hi LL21, the screws that came with the Cerabase are too small for Wilson speakers. All you need to do is to buy a set of stainless steel hex bolts having the same threads as the setscrews that came with the spikes kit. Each cerabase is consists of two halves, the top half (not containing the ceramic balls) can be screwed into the bottom of the speakers with the correct sized hex bolts, then screw the bottom half (containing the ceramic balls) then presto! Technically one can just rest the speakers onto the Cerabase, but I feel more sucure having them screwed in.
I noticed you are listening to X1s. I had a pair of X1 series 2s before Alexandria 2s. Love them!

 

[zbub]

Regarding my current setup --
Analog front end -- Scheu Das Laufwerk II table with Graham Phantom II arm mounted with either Clearaudio Insider wood or MY Sonic Hyper Eminent for stereo, and a Shroeder 2 mounted with a Benz Micro ACE mono for mono.
Digital front end -- Ayre C-5xe MP for CD/SACD and Linn Akurate DS for streaming
Phono pre -- ASR Basis Exclusive
Amplifications -- Soulution 721 and FM 611X
Speakers -- Wilson Alexandria 2
Cables are mostly from Crystal Cables (Dreamline and Ultra), a single Shunyata powercord on Ayre, and FM Acoustics speaker cables.

 

[Kingsrule]

Hi LL21, the screws that came with the Cerabase are too small for Wilson speakers. All you need to do is to buy a set of stainless steel hex bolts having the same threads as the setscrews that came with the spikes kit. Each cerabase is consists of two halves, the top half (not containing the ceramic balls) can be screwed into the bottom of the speakers with the correct sized hex bolts, then screw the bottom half (containing the ceramic balls) then presto! Technically one can just rest the speakers onto the Cerabase, but I feel more sucure having them screwed in.
I noticed you are listening to X1s. I had a pair of X1 series 2s before Alexandria 2s. Love them!

I'm a bit confused here. Wilson thread size is 3/8-16
If the Cerabase thread size isn't 3/8-16( most likely 1/4-20) how can you get 3/8-16 hex bolts to screw into them?

 

[zbub]

I'm a bit confused here. Wilson thread size is 3/8-16
If the Cerabase thread size isn't 3/8-16( most likely 1/4-20) how can you get 3/8-16 hex bolts to screw into them?

Hi. If you look at a Cerabase, the top half is like a cap with internal threads to accept the bottom half (having external threads), and there's a plastic disk in the middle of the top half. Take off the plastic disk (the plastic disk is used when one places equipment/speakers on top of Cerabase without using screws) and there is a through hole. Insert the 3/18-16 bolts through the hole and screw into the bottom of the speakers. Thankfully, with the Wilson jack it is not hard to do. It took me 15 minutes to take off the 8 spikes and install the Cerabases. Hope the explanation helps.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Lloyd here is a nice pic of your speaker , I maybe even like the lines more then the X2, it looks robotic like, aggressive as the lines/shapes are harder .
I don't know whats underneath here , it doesn't look like spikes to me


2795696752_g by andromeda61, on Flickr