Stillpoint's on Wilson Alexandria X-2.2

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Lloyd here is a nice pic of your speaker , I maybe even like the lines more then the X2, it looks robotic like, aggressive as the lines/shapes are harder .
I don't know whats underneath here , it doesn't look like spikes to me


2795696752_g by andromeda61, on Flickr
;)
 

LL21

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Hi. If you look at a Cerabase, the top half is like a cap with internal threads to accept the bottom half (having external threads), and there's a plastic disk in the middle of the top half. Take off the plastic disk (the plastic disk is used when one places equipment/speakers on top of Cerabase without using screws) and there is a through hole. Insert the 3/18-16 bolts through the hole and screw into the bottom of the speakers. Thankfully, with the Wilson jack it is not hard to do. It took me 15 minutes to take off the 8 spikes and install the Cerabases. Hope the explanation helps.

Even the Ultra 5s require adaptors for each type of speaker. The adaptor is basically 1 long screw...with different sized threads on each half of the screw...one half goes into the Ultra 5...the other half with the different sized threads goes into the speaker.
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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After thinking about soundstage increase via ultra 5's on speakers, I have a better description of the improvement...Speaker Disappearing act. The density and extension of music between the speakers improves significantly with the stillpoints versus spikes. x-2's without them are handicapped. ;)
 
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rockitman

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Since I am finally done with stillpoints, I will say this. Do the speakers first. Ultra SS for lighter floor standers and Ultra 5's under the heavier models.

Under Speakers ? transformational (Do them first)
Other components (significant improvement)
That is all I have to say in the matter.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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Changing the distance between the speaker and the floor does change the sonics (especially in the bass region) which may or may not be desirable.

Wow...sounds like you have quite a nice system...would love to know more if you don't mind. How are your cerabases attached to the X2s by the way? Do they screw in or sit underneath? If sitting underneath, did you put them under the speaker or under the diode? I think xv1/turntable has his ultra SS sitting under the diode of his Maxx3s. Most have screwed them in (incl me).

Yes, with the Ultra's I use the Wilson diode, then the Stillpoint Ultra's. Gap between bottom of speaker and diode as well as gap between diode and Ultra.

This maintains almost the exact same height as the Wilson diode + spikes.

Cheers
 

rbbert

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It would be interesting to have some idea how the Stillpoints under speakers compare to some other isolation devices like the Cerabases, Rollerblocks, FIM's, etc
 

rbbert

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Stillpoints are the best... No need to waste time and effort

Did you forget a smiley, or have you actually made some of these comparisons? And don't forget there is a significant price difference, which doesn't affect which is best but can affect some value judgements.
 

LL21

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It would be interesting to have some idea how the Stillpoints under speakers compare to some other isolation devices like the Cerabases, Rollerblocks, FIM's, etc

For isolation, I have tried: HRS Nimbus Couplers, M3, solid 4" thick birch ply, granite slabs, Auralex isolation, slate slabs, brass weights, Artesania weights, vibrapod. Among all of these, The Ultra 5 stands alone in its ability to deliver clean, delineated notes. Time and again across 9 different components, it stood alone in these important element (for me) of isolation. Only the HRS came close, and in the case of the Pre and DAC, I found in the end that I preferred HRS M3s in the overall balance. But for speakers, power units, transport, amp...I use Ultra 5s finding that the more I added, the more delineation of notes I got, the more syncopated rhythms became easily apparent, and the more depth, pace and extension I got...all effortlessly understandable. Each time I added Ultra 5s, I noticed a slight shaving of the upper mid to lower treble weight...but was always able to get it back if I carefully place the Ultra 5s under components 'just so'...and in most cases if I also added HRS Nimbus/Coupers on top of them. But this was to get back the tonal weight in the upper mids to lower treble. IN terms of clarity, nothing above has been better than the Ultra 5s. My two cents.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
For isolation, I have tried: HRS Nimbus Couplers, M3, solid 4" thick birch ply, granite slabs, Auralex isolation, slate slabs, brass weights, Artesania weights, vibrapod. Among all of these, The Ultra 5 stands alone in its ability to deliver clean, delineated notes. Time and again across 9 different components, it stood alone in these important element (for me) of isolation. Only the HRS came close, and in the case of the Pre and DAC, I found in the end that I preferred HRS M3s in the overall balance. But for speakers, power units, transport, amp...I use Ultra 5s finding that the more I added, the more delineation of notes I got, the more syncopated rhythms became easily apparent, and the more depth, pace and extension I got...all effortlessly understandable. Each time I added Ultra 5s, I noticed a slight shaving of the upper mid to lower treble weight...but was always able to get it back if I carefully place the Ultra 5s under components 'just so'...and in most cases if I also added HRS Nimbus/Coupers on top of them. But this was to get back the tonal weight in the upper mids to lower treble. IN terms of clarity, nothing above has been better than the Ultra 5s. My two cents.

Interesting Lloyd

Seems you, Christian and so many others who use Stillpoints said that only the Ultra 5's delivered the goods.
 

LL21

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Interesting Lloyd

Seems you, Christian and so many others who use Stillpoints said that only the Ultra 5's delivered the goods.

Yes, and I would add a further observations about Ultra 5s...those who use them tend to own LOTS of them. I went from 'trying a few on trial'...doubtfully given their cost...and over the course of 3-4 months ending up with 28...and the crazy thing is that as I have gotten to know other owners who use them...they are mainly all in the same boat...went from 0 to 4...to 24 or 34. 12 for speakers (2 speakers plus sub), 12 for power units (amp, power conditioner, power supplies), 3 transport, 1 as part of a trio of HRS, Artesania and Ultra 5s to damp the top of 1 particularly sensitive tubed power supply unit.
 

rbbert

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I'm not very familiar with the HRS Nimbus, but aren't they in a much different (lower) price class than the Stillpoints? And they appear to utilize viscous damping principles, which in my experience and Gary's analysis would be unlikely to compare to ball bearing designs (like the ones I mentioned) Considering that two full sets of Rollerblocks or FIM's cost about as much as one Ultra 5, I'd like to have some idea of their comparative worth. (I'm actually more likely to get Ultra SS than Ultra 5 for cost reasons alone).

Steve, didn't you used to have Aurios under some components or speakers?
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Steve,

There is a range of distance for each propogation setting. I verified the spike size on the mid and treble units for tilt and fore/aft position based on my ear height. My dealer had me setup close to the limit with a pretty heavy toe in. Speakers are 8.5 feet and my ears 38" off the ground. Based on the toe, I was only 9' from the speakers. Now I am 10.5' away with the speakers toed out farther to my satisfaction. The improvement going from the rollers in the new positioning to the Ultra 5's was huge. I resisted as long as I could. Resistance is futile. Once you hear what you were missing, you will ask yourself, like I did, why did I wait so long. ;)

Christian, did you ever directly compare the speakers on their spikes (not coasters) to the Stillpoints at the exact same speaker position? It seems like you changed both the speaker positions and the coasters to Stillpoints at roughly the same time, but the previous sound with spikes was at a different speaker location. I don't doubt a change in sound, but how do you know it is 100% due to the Stillpoints?
 

LL21

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Christian, did you ever directly compare the speakers on their spikes (not coasters) to the Stillpoints at the exact same speaker position? It seems like you changed both the speaker positions and the coasters to Stillpoints at roughly the same time, but the previous sound with spikes was at a different speaker location. I don't doubt a change in sound, but how do you know it is 100% due to the Stillpoints?

In my case, Peter, this is EXACTLY what I did. We hoisted the speakers up one side at a time by just a few inches, removed the spikes/diodes, and replaced with Ultra 5s and then set them back done again right over the tape. All my observations from the thread (Stillpoints Ultra Vs and X1/Grand Slamms) are based on this procedure. I know that technically, we should probably reorient my speakers a touch, and that probably would make the sound even better potentially...but I have not bothered in the last few months since doing it.
 

LL21

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I'm not very familiar with the HRS Nimbus, but aren't they in a much different (lower) price class than the Stillpoints? And they appear to utilize viscous damping principles, which in my experience and Gary's analysis would be unlikely to compare to ball bearing designs (like the ones I mentioned) Considering that two full sets of Rollerblocks or FIM's cost about as much as one Ultra 5, I'd like to have some idea of their comparative worth. (I'm actually more likely to get Ultra SS than Ultra 5 for cost reasons alone).

Steve, didn't you used to have Aurios under some components or speakers?
Yes, the Ultra Vs compare in price more the HRS M3 shelves...and I will say the Ultra Vs were 'a noticeable bit' more clear than the M3...but the M3 fought back with a denser tonality in the overall mids/upper treble. So for preamp and DAC, I gave up a bit of clarity...but maintained a beautifully dense tonality...and I got plenty of clarity by adding Ultra 5s everywhere else...in the end the optimal balance for me.

The reason I mention HRS Nimbus/Couplers with Ultra 5s often, is that I prefer this combination to just about anything else for power units. I put the Ultra 5s on the shelf/floor...and the HRS Nimbus/Couplers on top (somehow adds tonal density back in upper mids/treble) and then the component on top of that. Don't know why it works...for me it just does. I even demonstrated to the Stillpoints Distributor and he couldn't argue after going thru the iterations with him one at a time.
 

rbbert

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So AFAICT no one here has actually listened to Stillpoints vs. (somewhat) similarly designed products (less expensive, because they all are) ?
 

LL21

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So AFAICT no one here has actually listened to Stillpoints vs. (somewhat) similarly designed products (less expensive, because they all are) ?

Hi rbbert, not sure when you mean here...are you looking for someone to have compared Ultra 5s to similarly priced isolation, or similarly designed isolation? I have compared 4 Ultra 5s to 1 HRS M3 (both same price). I have not found anything similar in design to an Ultra 5 other than an Ultra SS, and I have not tried the Finite Elemente Cerabase which also uses ceramic balls in stainless steel casing.
 

rbbert

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Rollerblocks, FIM's and Finite Elements Cerabase are all ball "bearing" based, as I believe are the Stillpoints (at least one of their 3,4 or 5 "layers") and the Aurios (which I think are no longer made, or at least no longer distributed in the US). Genesis and NOLA (the Reference series) incorporate this type of suspension/isolation into their speakers as well. So I'm quite curious how the Stillpoints compare to these somewhat similar but much less expensive products.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Rollerblocks, FIM's and Finite Elements Cerabase are all ball "bearing" based, as I believe are the Stillpoints (at least one of their 3,4 or 5 "layers") and the Aurios (which I think are no longer made, or at least no longer distributed in the US). Genesis and NOLA (the Reference series) incorporate this type of suspension/isolation into their speakers as well. So I'm quite curious how the Stillpoints compare to these somewhat similar but much less expensive products.

Got it...makes perfect sense. The only comparison I can make it to the ultra SS which is effectively 1 ceramic ball vs 5 in each ultra v. The frequency response of the ultra SS felt like it 'waivered' sometimes in unpredictable ways depending on where and how I was using it, whereas the ultra v felt more linear, more sure-footed...I felt I had a better sense of what might happen if I stuck one underneath compared to an ultra SS. Further, the characteristics of noise floor, delineation, greater ability to effortlessly hear syncopated rhythms came thru much much better than ultra SS. I felt the ultra SS was somewhere between hrs nimbus couplers and an m3 shelf...closer to the nimbus couplers in performance. The ultra was a clear rival of the m3 shelf and definitively better in all out clarity.

That's the only comparison I can make. If I hear anything, I'll pass it along.
 

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