Stillpoint's on Wilson Alexandria X-2.2
- Thread starter rockitman
- Start date
I had them toed out to the position they are now in when I had them on rollers. I worked for week getting it just right. Going from rollers with the same speaker position to Ultra 5's was dramatic. The soundstage grew in depth and width. It is really transformational. That is all I can say. I did check your site under All Out Assault prior to my op and was surprised that you were using no stillpoint products. I certainly don't want to be disruptive to retirement funds...wink, wink...
PS: I have Odin Speaker cable coming in for demo to complete the Odin chain. It will be interesting to see how it stacks up against MIT's best.
Thinking more, you could argue that I did not hear my speakers with spikes in the current position...just rollers. Fair enough. My findings are consistent with Bruce B who had his (Alexia) on spikes and then went to Ultra's presumably with the speakers in the same position. I think he has shared similar positive impressions.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
going from rollers to anything can be transformational.
Even on spikes in the old position, soundstage aside, the bass is far more articulate, defined and extended. Transient response is more controlled. You know the saying...You can lead a horse...
Congrats...all good in the end. As someone who has enjoyed Ultra 5s for a number of months now (incl X1/Grand Slamms) I have an idea of what you are enjoying...so Enjoy!
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Even on spikes in the old position, soundstage aside, the bass is far more articulate, defined and extended. Transient response is more controlled. You know the saying...You can lead a horse...
I am not disputing anything you say about bass articulation. I agree that is an expected finding. I just can find no reason why the soundstage should be bigger and wider. Heck for all the times you and others have added new gear, the first thing I read is how sound stage is broadened each time. After all of these additions and your changes to your system which have resulted in a bigger wider soundstage each time, your soundstage must extend into different time zones
As I have been experimenting with various products from Synergistic Research, including the Tranquility Base and HFT and FEQ devices, all of which lower the noise floor and eliminate compression, I can hear with each addition of these products an increase in spaciousness, better layering from front to back and a much better understanding of the recorded acoustic environment. Stillpoints in effect are lowering the noise floor as well by stopping harmful vibrations from getting into the signal chain. So an increase in the perceived soundstage should come as no surprise.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Increase in spaciousness is what I would expect, with more air around the instruments, singers etc but not a widening of the sound stage. I interpret it as better focus and imaging
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
The diode is hand tight but leave about 1/8 - 1/4" space between the speaker bottom and the Ultra V
Hi Steve, speaking for myself...here is where the increased soundstage came from imho. I often get the sense that soundstages in reality for certain kinds of recordings are actually quite wide...in fact, VERY wide. But I often find that systems struggle to keep the outer bounds of the soundstage all the way to where they originally were...hence, why we often criticize a system for 'having the soundstage collapse'.
More particularly, I find that vibration in my system has a tendency to cause notes at the outer edges of soundstages to 'fall inwards' or 'waiver' from being way out to only slightly out at the edge of the soundstage. As the vibration has decreased and individual notes take a strong and more solid positioning within the space...I also find that notes that once waivered on the edge of the outer edge of the soundstage suddenly become firmly rooted outside the soundstage where previously the system had struggled to keep the outermost boundary of the soundstage consistently that far out.
Its not that violins keep moving out as much as that the violins are rooted stage right and there is one triangle player who is actually 2.5 feet further out...but with vibration in my system, his notes seem to 'collapse' to the inside of the speaker right next to the violins...but with that vibration removed, the triangle seems to move to the outer edge of the speaker and is clearly 2.5 feet from the violins.
and thus the soundstage has 'increased'. my two cents.
Toed in as much as Wilson recommends (just able to see inside edge of speaker) or less radical toe?
Yes very true. But I was so disappointed in the Ultras. My floor has very little "bounce".
yes, less toed in. Steve seems to foget my soundstage comparo was with the speakers in the same position including toe when I went from Rollers to Stillpoints. (They still sounded pretty darn good on rollers) The soundstage can only be as wide as the room, correct ? What I hear is a complete disappearing act with my speakers on stillpoints versus on rollers with the speakers in the same position. Placement of voices and instruments have a great emphasis in between the speakers and sound also convincingly extends beyond the speakers left and right, constrained only by my room width.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
My floor is in the basement but it is sitting on the Kinetics Noise Control KIP system
I think what he is trying to say is that the lowest bass octaves are more defined and extended making them more obvious to the ear versus before when lack of adequate isolation obscures and homogenizes those notes making them less obvious.
Yes, I think there can be upper bass overhang in some systems relating to floor vibration or in the speaker itself...and when that lessens, you get the sense of far more extended bass because the 'bass roar' is gone, and suddenly lower bass notes appear that were previously covered up. It was possibly always there, just masked by the bass overhang.
OK. I can relate to that. My system is on a suspended floor where I had all the floor joists doubled up when I had the IRS-V installed. Should I have had them tripled or quadrupled?? There is a limit to the number of beams you can add, or should I have just added another 600 sq ft room to the house on a slab? Should I have moved? Some things become impractical.
On long sustained extremely deep organ notes, the floor starts to do sympathetic vibrations you can feel when standing or sitting in an uncushioned chair, but it takes time for enough energy to be built up to make these sympathetic vibrations. This does not happen with bass drum, tympani or bass guitar or even deep tuba notes. The long sustained deepest organ notes is the only instance where I have any room issues, but since it is the woofer cones moving the air, not the cabinet vibrating causing the effect. I don't see how stillpoints will do any better than the original Wilson spikes to minimize the problem.
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