Stillpoints Ultra Vs - Wilson X1/Grand Slamms

[LL21]

Correct. But spiking them through carpet, would not change this. Vibration will still be dissipated in the device, but they would just be more stable spiked.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[allvinyl]

Stillpoints Ultra products: Adding Isolation = Need to Re-position speakers

In a word, stunningly good on clarity, note definition. Using 15 CDs...particularly Glenn Gould Goldberg Variation (1981)...I found the turn of each piano note was beautifully articulated so you really appreciated his fingerwork, his turns of phrasing. A wonderous exploration of Gould's interpretation of Bach. However, the entire weight of the mids and treble lightened by about 15% so that it no longer had the weight and 'wooden slam' I loved hearing when I studied piano for 12 years. it was killing me...I could not stand that one single element...everything else was great. But in some recordings and some higher-range areas of the piano suddenly becoming potentially and 'electronic keyboard fake of a piano' because it had not weight was not acceptable to me.

I am not saying it happens across the board in all circumstances (in fact, it doesn't because I use them elsewhere)...but I found a review on the Stillpoints Website where this is exactly what the Reviewer noted...he even used Piano weight as his example as well. Not a coincidence imho...in our respective systems, we heard the same problem.

I did not read that you tried re-positioning the speakers towards the room boundaries in an effort recover the perceived loss of foundation (tonal balance). Please consider the following. When you originally setup your system and tweaked placement, you did so in the absence of equipment isolation. Whenever you isolate a component, whether it is speakers, amps, whatever, effectively eliminating the vibration energy's path to a shelf/floor/etc, you will likely need to recover the desired tonal balance through speaker re-positioning. We have experienced this and experimented extensively with great success.

 

[Bill Hart]

I did not read that you tried re-positioning the speakers towards the room boundaries in an effort recover the perceived loss of foundation (tonal balance). Please consider the following. When you originally setup your system and tweaked placement, you did so in the absence of equipment isolation. Whenever you isolate a component, whether it is speakers, amps, whatever, effectively eliminating the vibration energy's path to a shelf/floor/etc, you will likely need to recover the desired tonal balance through speaker re-positioning. We have experienced this and experimented extensively with great success.

John's comment jibes with my experience using the Stillpoints Record Isolator. The sound was a little less prominent in the bass, compared to the factory supplied twist down clamp, and I had to readjust my woofer settings, and raise the gain a little. What I got in place of the original clamp, was a more 'pacific' sound, everything seemed a little more relaxed, less punchy (until i did my readjustments) and clearer in the midrange.

 

[LL21]

I did not read that you tried re-positioning the speakers towards the room boundaries in an effort recover the perceived loss of foundation (tonal balance). Please consider the following. When you originally setup your system and tweaked placement, you did so in the absence of equipment isolation. Whenever you isolate a component, whether it is speakers, amps, whatever, effectively eliminating the vibration energy's path to a shelf/floor/etc, you will likely need to recover the desired tonal balance through speaker re-positioning. We have experienced this and experimented extensively with great success.

John,

Thank you. You make an excellent point...with the speakers weighing as much as small family, I am unable to do this solo. But you are right...it is worth considering. And perhaps the boys at Stillpoints (Kog) here (who used to sell Wilsons) can help.

 

[allvinyl]

Stillpoints Ultra products: Adding Isolation = Need to Re-position speakers

I did not read that you tried re-positioning the speakers towards the room boundaries in an effort recover the perceived loss of foundation (tonal balance). Please consider the following. When you originally setup your system and tweaked placement, you did so in the absence of equipment isolation. Whenever you isolate a component, whether it is speakers, amps, whatever, effectively eliminating the vibration energy's path to a shelf/floor/etc, you will likely need to recover the desired tonal balance through speaker re-positioning. We have experienced this and experimented extensively with great success.

After further discussion here at Stillpoints I want to refine the above response. The speakers will need re-positioning to recover the desired tonal balance, but it may be the case that you have to move them in any direction from the original location to find the position that restores the desired balance. The solution for recovering tonal balance will not always be moving the speakers towards the room boundaries. Speeding up the recovery process time may be realized by knowing where the room nodes are located. Any knowledge we can use to minimize the incremental re-location of 300 lb speakers has to be a good thing.

 

[rockitman]

I have shied away from Ultra 5's under my Wilson X-2.2's which sit on carpet. After looking at the device, it appears to me that a spike could be screwed into the bottom of the Ultra 5. I wonder if Stillpoints has a threaded spike that would fit the threads on the bottom of it to get through the carpet ?

 

[Bill Demars]

I have shied away from Ultra 5's under my Wilson X-2.2's which sit on carpet. After looking at the device, it appears to me that a spike could be screwed into the bottom of the Ultra 5. I wonder if Stillpoints has a threaded spike that would fit the threads on the bottom of it to get through the carpet ?

Perhaps Allvinyl from Stillpoints can chime in, but AFAIK Stillpoints intends their Ultra 5 and Ultra SS to work on any surface including thick carpet and that they do not make a spike. This in my mind would negate the benefit of what the product is intended to do and introduce an unwanted variable. Another WBF member has posted that he uses the Ultra SS on thick carpet to great effect.

 

[LL21]

After further discussion here at Stillpoints I want to refine the above response. The speakers will need re-positioning to recover the desired tonal balance, but it may be the case that you have to move them in any direction from the original location to find the position that restores the desired balance. The solution for recovering tonal balance will not always be moving the speakers towards the room boundaries. Speeding up the recovery process time may be realized by knowing where the room nodes are located. Any knowledge we can use to minimize the incremental re-location of 300 lb speakers has to be a good thing.

Thank you...I am most impressed by the fact that you have taken the time to discuss this internally. I have not had the opportunity to move the speakers myself. The Stillpoints Distributor did suggest moving the speakers at one point, but after spending several days during the course of several weeks listening to the system as we added the Stillpoints, his recommendations were not about moving the speakers any longer. Given your thoughts and discussions, he may reconsider.

What I can say is that right now the tonal qualities, after adding HRS Nimbus with the Ultra 5s, has worked exceptionally well...to the point where I did demonstrate on a number of occasions with and without the HRS nimbus couplers to the Stillpoints Distributor so he could hear for himself. He as most supportive and patient, and I think in the end felt satisfied with where we came out...and after playing around with additional options he thought of...we ended back to the final configuration I had come up with on my own.

Nevertheless, I speak with Kog often and will inquire to get the benefit of their thoughts, having spent several hours on several occasions in the room.

Finally, thank you again for taking the time to provide such great advice...an appreciated rarity from manufacturers and a testament to your commitment to great audio. Kind regards.

 

[LL21]

Perhaps Allvinyl from Stillpoints can chime in, but AFAIK Stillpoints intends their Ultra 5 and Ultra SS to work on any surface including thick carpet and that they do not make a spike. This in my mind would negate the benefit of what the product is intended to do and introduce an unwanted variable. Another WBF member has posted that he uses the Ultra SS on thick carpet to great effect.

I get the distinct impression you are correct on the first point. And yes, Turntable certainly has confirmed he likes his Ultra SS on thick carpet under his Wilson Maxx 3s better than the diodes...and he has not even screwed the Ultra SS directly into the bass of the Wilsons using the screw adaptor provided by Stillpoints. He simply removed the spike itself from the diode...and positioned the Ultra SS under the diode.

 

[audioarcher]

Perhaps Allvinyl from Stillpoints can chime in, but AFAIK Stillpoints intends their Ultra 5 and Ultra SS to work on any surface including thick carpet and that they do not make a spike. This in my mind would negate the benefit of what the product is intended to do and introduce an unwanted variable. Another WBF member has posted that he uses the Ultra SS on thick carpet to great effect.

Why would using Stillpoints under your speakers make setting them on top of carpet ok? Carpet will allow your speakers to rock back and forth unless you spike through it. That is not a desirable thing. Stillpoints work in the vertical plane which is not a problem for speaker drivers. If you get horizontal movement from the speakers rocking back and forth on the carpet then it will counteract what the speaker drivers are trying to do. This will result in muddled sound.

 

[rockitman]

Why would using Stillpoints under your speakers make setting them on top of carpet ok? Carpet will allow your speakers to rock back and forth unless you spike through it. That is not a desirable thing. Stillpoints work in the vertical plane which is not a problem for speaker drivers. If you get horizontal movement from the speakers rocking back and forth on the carpet then it will counteract what the speaker drivers are trying to do. This will result in muddled sound.

That is my thought too. I have medium pile rug with a pad. I would be afraid the x-2's falling over. I still think carpet is a compromise for using these things on. The other issue is height. It my require re-alignment of the x-2 driver units and or moving the seat closer to the back wall. All in all a real PITA experiment with speaker that weight 600 lbs. per channel.

 

[Bruce B]

. All in all a real PITA experiment with speaker that weight 600 lbs. per channel.

I had a speaker that weighed 600lbs... not fun at all!

 

[rockitman]

I had a speaker that weighed 600lbs... not fun at all!

It's close to the very last thing I want to try with my rig due to pain and effort.

 

[Bruce B]

It's close to the very last thing I want to try with my rig due to pain and effort.

Life is good with a 256lbs. speaker... You ought to try it sometime!

 

[rockitman]

Life is good with a 256lbs. speaker... You ought to try it sometime!

Lol....I want Arnies Arrakkis 2's using two sets of XS-150's. Next time I change out the speakers, it will include the house, so I will go big !

 

[Frank750]

It's close to the very last thing I want to try with my rig due to pain and effort.

Whats the big deal? I thought using the jack made getting to the spikes fairly easy. Seems like it's worth trying from all the feedback.

 

[rockitman]

Whats the big deal? I thought using the jack made getting to the spikes fairly easy. Seems like it's worth trying from all the feedback.

It's not that easy, being on carpet, the jack does not slide under the speaker without tipping the speaker back on two spikes. It will probably happen, just not motivated at this point.

 

[Steve Williams]

It's not that easy, being on carpet, the jack does not slide under the speaker without tipping the speaker back on two spikes. It will probably happen, just not motivated at this point.

I had the same problem with getting the jack between the carpet and the speaker. I found the best was with 2 guys and it can be done in a few minutes

 

[LL21]

That is my thought too. I have medium pile rug with a pad. I would be afraid the x-2's falling over. I still think carpet is a compromise for using these things on. The other issue is height. It my require re-alignment of the x-2 driver units and or moving the seat closer to the back wall. All in all a real PITA experiment with speaker that weight 600 lbs. per channel.

On height, the fortunate thing is that the Ultra Vs with the Stillpoints adaptor screw got me to the same height as with the diodes/spikes on my X1s. As for rug, yes, I suppose it depends...thick shag may be very different from oriental silk carpet on wood where the sheer weight of 600 lbs means it aint moving.

 

[LL21]

I had the same problem with getting the jack between the carpet and the speaker. I found the best was with 2 guys and it can be done in a few minutes

The Stillpoints Distributor came over (2 guys), and it took them maybe 20-30 minutes to do both speakers. They clearly had the installation thing down pat...they tilted it back, let it rest on wooden blocks...screwed in 2 Ultra 5s, and tilted the speaker back the other way, and did the other 2 Ultra Vs.