Yes Howie. They are actually inserts for different arm configurations to be used with the AX 10 G armboard.
Sublime Sound
- Thread starter PeterA
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Yes Howie. They are actually inserts for different arm configurations to be used with the AX 10 G armboard.
Joe, I’m confused by this post. There is no panzerholz in my system. I am following the advice of DDK who has strong opinions about that material. There are many posts about the use of panzerholtz and its affect on sound in audio on WBF.
Sorry Peter I could have sworn there was a post above mine that mentioned that the wood squares under the TT may be panzerholz and I just chimed in. Don’t see it anymore. I didn’t mean to assert that you had it in your system. No worries.
Wow Peter ! I know we are going to get a comprehensive review when you have had the TT for a while, but what is your initial impression ? Where do you hear the biggest improvement ? Is it the bass ?
Wow indeed Lagonda. I will have more to say when I write up a report in due time. For now I can say that I understand why DDK includes this turntable on his list of “Beyond” tables. It is difficult to describe. It really needs to be heard.
The term “natural“ does not appear on the glossary of audiophile terms.
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Peter, I wouldn't have guessed in a thousand years that a hobby I took up that by definition bypasses language, music being an unspoken communication, would in one respect effectively get hamstrung on words, one of those words being "natural" that as I say, I dont know anyone proud of their sound doesnt believe their sound is anything other than natural.
Like, I don't know anyone calling their sound "unnatural", "artificial", "adulterated" etc.
Like, I don't know anyone calling their sound "unnatural", "artificial", "adulterated" etc.
I don’t know what to say Marc. It is a good term which is very descriptive. I don’t feel hamstrung using it.
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Doesn't mean that it isn't so just because they don't describe it as such Marc. The problem isn't just the vocabulary but the individual's level of experience and understanding of the topic that makes communication almost as complex as the topic.
Edit- Actually what you said isn't correct either, I work with a lot of people that who call their sound "unnatural", "artificial", "adulterated" etc. looking for "natural" sound. Sometimes it's a matter of being honest with oneself forums are filled with people seeking help.
david
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David, my point is we surely all feel our systems are natural. Now others might visit and disagree. But noone is starting off by saying their sound is anything other than natural.
For me, the word is as confusing as it is helpful. Its like saying something is "good". Why is it good? What makes it good? Why is something else bad?
For me, like Peter (to a lesser extent, we live in a quieter place for live music), I also use unamplified acoustic concerts as longer term measure.
Natural as a word I find less than useful, and polarising. But timbral accuracy, tonal discrimination, texture and density, these are all heard live and aspired to by system changes here, as I'm sure they are at Peter, and many more of us. And obviously heard at the best demos (Audiophile Bill's horns being the greatest example).
I feel I've made great strides on aspiring to the qualities listed above. I guess I'm gonna have to use the word natural more often as well Lol.
For me, the word is as confusing as it is helpful. Its like saying something is "good". Why is it good? What makes it good? Why is something else bad?
For me, like Peter (to a lesser extent, we live in a quieter place for live music), I also use unamplified acoustic concerts as longer term measure.
Natural as a word I find less than useful, and polarising. But timbral accuracy, tonal discrimination, texture and density, these are all heard live and aspired to by system changes here, as I'm sure they are at Peter, and many more of us. And obviously heard at the best demos (Audiophile Bill's horns being the greatest example).
I feel I've made great strides on aspiring to the qualities listed above. I guess I'm gonna have to use the word natural more often as well Lol.
Your point is wrong Marc and in fact the opposite is true, people don't all feel that their system sounds natural. People are continuously asking for help about their systems because they find them natural.
How's the words "natural", "real" or "natural and real sound" polarizing by any definition of the word? You can have a level of timbral accuracy, tonal discrimination, texture and density and still not have a natural and real, as in the real world natural sound. Read thousands of audio reviews full of your favorite qualifiers describing hifi sounding gear or terrible advice to people. If you or some others are struggling to understand the words come up with something better than "real" and "natural", I don't have a problem using any word that defines the same values as clearly.
david
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So, if I go to many classical, and some jazz, concerts, maybe 30-40/year, for 4 years, and I make a change at home where timbral accuracy hits me very directly, and I realise I really hadn't heard instrumental timbre authentically in the past, this is not necessarily a sign of a (more) natural sound?
If it isn't, then I'm not sure what our common points of reference are.
If it isn't, then I'm not sure what our common points of reference are.
Marc, I would have to disagree. I have written that before embarking on set up experiments over a year ago, I described my system as sounding a bit “hifi”. This is the opposite of natural. I was growing tired of that sound because it did not reflect what I was hearing from live music.
It was clear to me what hi-fi meant and what natural meant. There was no confusion. No ambiguity. With David’s guidance, I began a series of experiments and changes without replacing equipment. My system began to sound less hi-fi and more natural.
I’m sorry that you find the term confusing. When I visited David’s system in Utah I began to more fully grasp the characteristics that together constitute a natural sounding system. I listed these In the opening few posts of the thread I started describing my visit to Utah.
As far as answering why does it sound natural or how does it sound natural, it’s quite simple. The answer is because it sounds more and more like live music. It’s really as simple as that. It’s an evolutionary thing and one begins to understand it when he hears it.
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Looks good Peter. I need to hear one of the big MS one of these days. How many more arms are you planning on mounting?
Paul
Paul
Thank you Paul. Two arms planned at this point. I could cut down my outboard arm pod by an inch and use it in the front for my third 3012R depending on whether or not it will fit with the new steel plinth. Haven’t thought that far yet.
The platter itself is stainless steel. The brown mat is a synthetic leather felt like suede material. ddk would know for sure.
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