As long as I use the really heavy armboard on the right I think I can only mount two arms. If I don’t use that accessory, I could mount three.
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Sublime Sound
- Thread starter PeterA
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As long as I use the really heavy armboard on the right I think I can only mount two arms. If I don’t use that accessory, I could mount three.
I think this is key. I believe I understand how you and David use the word natural. Other people use the word as well and may or may not mean the same thing - or refer to the same experience as representative. Discussion invariably ensues (as it did here), which is the opposite one hopes for from a single word description. That's why I prefer to talk about the sound of live acoustic music - that becomes an ostensive definition. When you can point (literally or figuratively) at something, you acquire great explanatory power - understanding is often immediate.
And of course congrats on the new table. I love things that come packed well.
I have read your comments on stock power cords and tend to agree. The stock power cords do sound better in many ways.
I would even go as far as saying that many interconnects do sound different, but may not sound better than basic interconnects you can make yourself.
One of the members of our listening group has a fairly high end system and another friend uses basic power cords and interconnects on his vintage system. I hate to say it but the vintage system does have the edge in naturalness of sound. From my many years of listening I would conclude that its not the power cords and interconnects that make the system. Its more the room and system synergy that has more of an effect on the sound.
I would even go as far as saying that many interconnects do sound different, but may not sound better than basic interconnects you can make yourself.
One of the members of our listening group has a fairly high end system and another friend uses basic power cords and interconnects on his vintage system. I hate to say it but the vintage system does have the edge in naturalness of sound. From my many years of listening I would conclude that its not the power cords and interconnects that make the system. Its more the room and system synergy that has more of an effect on the sound.
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Computer audio is a clear example of "unnatural", it can have a lot of things right and check all audiophile boxes but it's not "natural" or"real"!
david
There's been a lot of discussion on this site about the term "natural." The first time I heard a "natural" system was in Seattle, it was made up of Lamm tube gear, vintage Tannoy Autograph Professional Reds, EMT 927 table and a SME3012R. The way I described the system was "ease." The music just poured out of the speakers, very much like a live performance. It didn't have the scale of a live performance, but it sounded like a live performance, i.e. "natural."
It made me want to just throw away my SS/Computer Audio/Focal Beryllium based system I had at home.
It made me want to just throw away my SS/Computer Audio/Focal Beryllium based system I had at home.
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You're talking about about a different thing that has nothing to do with "natural" sound. Presence or absence of pops and clicks doesn't figure into it at all neither does an all analog system automatically equal "natural" sound but computer audio is the farthest I've heard from "natural" sound.
david
When I think natural I don't necessarily explicitly think live, because live music is often much more brutish and loud. I'm not confident that's exactly what anyone wants at home, at least not all the time.
I find no relations to vinyl sound and how much music is natural/live. But if a record is trashed it is distracting.
I find no relations to vinyl sound and how much music is natural/live. But if a record is trashed it is distracting.
Buy good records and get a record cleaner. Should I include internet outages and bit rate slowdowns when I describe digital sound?
I'm always confused my scratches or clicks and pops are brought into the discussion of analog. Why would anyone play a damaged record? I wouldn't drive my audi with a flat tire or a damaged engine.
If you have a lot of clicks and pops, you need better records
I agree. A live string quartet can be pretty loud. So can a piano played in a living room. I would not even want to think of Bonzo playing Moby Dick on his drums in my listening room. So no way do I want that level of loudness in my listening room on a regular basis. I think it is more the qualities of live, real music that we try to reproduce through our systems.
I do not think anyone is convinced that even the best audio systems sound indistinguishable from actual live music. But, the best systems, and I would qualify those as the ones that sound most natural, get us closer to the experience we have from live music. It is about believability, a level of being convinced that what one hears is not artificial. It is about not thinking of the system and simply being engrossed in the music. For me, these are the results of listening to a natural sounding system.
Clicks/pops/ticks and soft groove noise have nothing to do with it. If the reproduction sounds natural, the mind goes right to the music and it becomes easy to overlook or ignore those few instances when one hears the occasional click.
Yes. There are always different levels of hardware but nature of things don’t change. IME computer front ends never sound “natural” and wether it’s a cheap phone or a $100k server/dac combo their nature is exactly the same.
david
We agree on this point, but my best experiences in believability were with systems that you will consider artificial. I find analog sometimes more enjoyable than digital, but top digital more believable. But IMHO top digital means digital recordings, not digital remastering of analog.
I think you make a careful distinction here Micro, "top digital means digital recordings."
I can't answer that Francisco because it all depends on how someone defines better and worse, my comment was not ever having heard computer audio sound "natural". Nature of digital wasn't the subject there are CD front ends that sound very natural even if they're totally different from analog but I've never heard computer audio to sound that way.
I see your point regarding the system and that's true but that wasn't the determining factor in my experiences.
david
This suggests that electromechanical induced distortions are needed in the path of the audio signal ...
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