Sublime Sound

[tima]

If you have a lot of clicks and pops, you need better records

Or take better care of them. That copy of I'm your Captain with Mark Farner and the boys, or your treasured MC5 preserved from your college dorm room - the one you rolled on - those went through hard times and they sound like it. They didn't live in an environment conducive to preservation. But just like anything else you value, take care of your records and keep them clean. Keep your styli clean and aligned. Your records will last a long time and without clicks and pops.

 

[tima]

When I think natural I don't necessarily explicitly think live, because live music is often much more brutish and loud. I'm not confident that's exactly what anyone wants at home, at least not all the time.

It's not about experiencing an orchestra or piano in your audio room, but what you hear and know in the concert hall. If its brutish, I don't want it pastuerized by my stereo.

Is 'natural' being stylized by disconnecting it from live music?

 

[Al M.]

If its brutish, I don't want it pastuerized by my stereo.

Priceless expression. I have often had misgivings about too polite sound from stereos.

 

[bonzo75]

If good classical music live hurts your ears maybe take up knitting instead?

 

[tima]

If good classical music live hurts your ears maybe take up knitting instead?

Says the Madame Defarge of WBF.


Defarge group listening to Léo Delibes comic ballet Coppélia while knitting a crossover.

 

[PeterA]

Says the Madame Defarge of WBF.

View attachment 75504
Defarge group listening to Léo Delibes comic ballet Coppélia while knitting a crossover.

Aren’t they known for using natural fibers?

 

[tima]

Aren’t they known for using natural fibers?

Heh - that's funny!

 

[Joe Whip]

I have a computer based system and it sounds damn natural to me. With well recorded live jazz and classical, it takes you right into the space, listening to Gerry Mulligan and Chet Baker live at Carnegie Hall 24/192. Fantastic.

 

[assessor43]

When I talk about naturalness of sound I am talking about the timbre and decay of each instrument. Does a piano sound like a piano? Does a Hammond organ sound like a Hammond organ? Can i hear the woodiness of a Cello or Double bass? Does every record sound the same or do I hear different spaces. Does my system take me there or are they here in my room?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Natural doesnt want to talk timbre and decay, or other terms. Natural just wants to talk natural. It becomes a truism for the person arguing it, and excludes all others from the conversation. Kinda like finding religion. If you haven't found the same, too bad, you're excluded.
As I say, I'll take a straw poll on 100 audiophiles. All 100 will feel their sound is natural, not 1 will say unnatural.

 

[PeterA]

Natural doesnt want to talk timbre and decay, or other terms. Natural just wants to talk natural. It becomes a truism for the person arguing it, and excludes all others from the conversation. Kinda like finding religion. If you haven't found the same, too bad, you're excluded.
As I say, I'll take a straw poll on 100 audiophiles. All 100 will feel their sound is natural, not 1 will say unnatural.

Marc, I did not foresee that a few photographs of my new turntable would turn this thread into such a contentious discussion about how one interprets the sound of his system.

No one is telling you you can’t express your opinion on the term “natural”. You’re doing it very regularly here on someone else’s system thread. And if I were one of those hundred people in your fictitious poll, and I had been exposed to a system that sounds natural, I would’ve said that my system a year and a half ago did not sound natural. In fact I said that about my system when I started doing my experiments and getting rid of the audio file power cords. I described the sound of my system as “hi-fi“ which I now realize is the opposite of what I referred to as “natural“. I’ve also stated that I liked that sound and I understand full well that other people like that sound. It is just not the same as a system sounding natural. All that is buried somewhere in the middle of this system thread.

You have made your point abundantly clear repeatedly and no one is telling you that you cannot voice your opinion.

A more convincing timbre and sense of decay as well as the initial attack, are all attributes of a natural sounding system. These improve when the information delivered by the system to the listening seat is less corrupted and allowed to flow through freely. The best systems allow more of this information to come through. The key thing is whether or not it sounds real or artificial. I used to like black backgrounds and pinpoint imaging, tight and fast bass, and frequency extremes that drew attention to themselves. Now I prefer a more balanced sound. This has a bit to do with gear choices, but likely more importantly with set up decisions and a lack of accessories, ie: simplification. This also requires a holistic approach starting at the panel and including rack supports.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I dont think I've said anything half as contentious as Dave declaring all computer audio as not natural, at a stroke panning all Extreme owners on this forum.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Think yourself lucky Peter, 60% of posts on my system thread tell me to junk my spkrs Lol. You're getting away with it lightly Lol.

 

[ddk]

Natural doesnt want to talk timbre and decay, or other terms. Natural just wants to talk natural. It becomes a truism for the person arguing it, and excludes all others from the conversation. Kinda like finding religion. If you haven't found the same, too bad, you're excluded.
As I say, I'll take a straw poll on 100 audiophiles. All 100 will feel their sound is natural, not 1 will say unnatural.

Marc,
It's not a religion nor is it exclusive but having read so much of you and your system injected into every thread on this forum I know all about both and understand your frustration and infatuation with “natural”. You simply don’t have a clue about “natural” sound and perhaps need more of your epiphanies, preferably in the thread which is all about you! How many times you repeated the same comment and got the same answers?

david

 

[ddk]

I dont think I've said anything half as contentious as Dave declaring all computer audio as not natural, at a stroke panning all Extreme owners on this forum.

You left out my cat litter box comments! General comments not panning anyone and you won't see me in either thread talking about myself or my systems.

david

 

[howiebrou]

Marc,
It's not a religion nor is it exclusive but having read so much of you and your system injected into every thread on this forum I know all about both and understand your frustration and infatuation with “natural”. You simply don’t have a clue about “natural” sound and perhaps need more of your epiphanies, preferably in the thread which is all about you! How many times you repeated the same comment and got the same answers?

david

Ouch!

 

[spiritofmusic]

I simply don't have a clue about natural sound? If you say so, Dave.
Over and out.

 

[assessor43]

Whether you use power conditioners, stock power cords, interconnects is your business. The goal is getting to that place I mentioned earlier. If you are there with the various tweaks that are available in this hobby all the power to you.

In my case, I have found that less can be more. When I purchased aftermarket power cords for example, I was trying to make something happen with the sound that was not there in the first place. That has been my problem. In many cases, it just caused more harm than good and I have a very modest system but I have many friends who have what I would call high end systems.

The thing I ask myself is did this system take me there? That for me is the big test. Do I feel like I have been transported to the venue?

 

[tima]

In my case, I have found that less can be more. When I purchased aftermarket power cords for example, I was trying to make something happen with the sound that was not there in the first place. That has been my problem. In many cases, it just caused more harm than good and I have a very modest system but I have many friends who have what I would call high end systems.

What you write here assessor43 is interesting.

For the past few years I've puzzled over the notion of desire to change the sound of the primary components in one's system versus 'enhancing' or improving their sound. At what point does the latter turn into the former? At what point does one do, as assessor43 describes, more harm than good? When is a component no longer itself? And how do you come to realize that?

Far more questions than answers.

If a component is lacking or weak in some aspect, it seems that replacing it is a reasonable approach rather than trying something else to mitigate or overcome the weakness or to alter the component's basic character. Is the 'solution' to, for example, flabby mid-to-low bass a new interconnect or power cord, without which the problem remains extant? As I've noted before, a few, but very very few manufacturers believe another man's product is required by theirs to be its best.

Which raises the question, why do people modify their system to sound differently than it does natively, out of the box? Putting aside interconnects and speaker cables (because they are necessary for system operation) what are people's goals when introducing after-market power cords, exotic material electrical sockets, various platforms or materials or footers for equipment to sit on, grounding boxes, cable lifters. Etc. Replying "to sound better" seems obvious but unreflective.

 

[morricab]

Think yourself lucky Peter, 60% of posts on my system thread tell me to junk my spkrs Lol. You're getting away with it lightly Lol.

Well....you should...just kidding!