Thanks Marc. I do not think I have found THE spot yet, but I am getting very close. It is a matter of 1/2" movements at this point. I used to think of changes in position as having both pros and cons, but now that I am very close, a slight change is either one or the other, not both. If it does not help in the attributes of tone, dynamics or presence, it goes back. Speaker set up is a fascinating topic, but it can be quite frustrating and time consuming. Familiarity with particular reference recordings and real sound help tremendously.
Sublime Sound
- Thread starter PeterA
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Thanks Marc. I do not think I have found THE spot yet, but I am getting very close. It is a matter of 1/2" movements at this point. I used to think of changes in position as having both pros and cons, but now that I am very close, a slight change is either one or the other, not both. If it does not help in the attributes of tone, dynamics or presence, it goes back. Speaker set up is a fascinating topic, but it can be quite frustrating and time consuming. Familiarity with particular reference recordings and real sound help tremendously.
Good advice.
I think I’m there or thereabouts.
In the last month I haven’t analysed my sound once, just basking in total immersive enjoyment.
I think like you I’ve got as close as I’m going to get.
I’m sure you agree that it’s a great feeling to obsess less and enjoy more .
I think I’m there or thereabouts.
In the last month I haven’t analysed my sound once, just basking in total immersive enjoyment.
I think like you I’ve got as close as I’m going to get.
I’m sure you agree that it’s a great feeling to obsess less and enjoy more .
Yes, I believe it. When I say 1/2" movements, I'm talking about 1/2" on a scale 12" behind the listening seat. That is like 1/16" or less at the speaker for toe-in. And it is audible.
Al M. came over tonight to hear the results of my continued efforts to fine tune speaker position. We like what we heard until we put on the Kremer/Bach solo violin recording. Al thought the strings sounded a bit "silvery" with less wood tone than the last time he was here, so we tried adjusting speaker toe in. He then made the wonderful suggestion to rotate the Tube Traps so that the reflection strips would face the corners of the front wall on either side of my fireplace. Wow, what a difference. Killing this reflection really cleaned up the sound. The violin had more wood tone, more weight, but still great string tone. We then played Holst's Planets again and it was even better. The image became bigger, the sound grander, the instruments clearer. The whole sound was cleaner. I think I've now got my new Q3s really sounding good. Thanks Al for this great suggestion.
Yes, those are the air tubes from the compressor to the Vibraplanes. I've been meaning to place the compressor back in the basement, but I have not yet gotten to it. Another long term goal is to place the amps in the basement, but the Transparent networks may make that difficult.
Jim Smith had rotated the Tube Traps so that the reflective strips faced each other on each side of the fireplace. That orientation gave the presentation from the Mini IIs a bit more air and atmosphere, and the illusion of extra depth. It also improved the tonal balance. However, the Q3 tweeters are more extended and resolving, so this was no longer necessary. Al figured that out. With the increased absorption in the corners, the stage is now also deeper, wider, and there is an added sense of clarity with low level details. It is remarkable how such a small difference in acoustic treatments can have such a profound effect on tonal balance, clarity and soundstaging. I stayed up late after Al left just to hear the changes on some familiar records. The effect was more pronounced on some than on others which is a testament to the increased transparency of the playback caused by removing more of the sound of the room. Differences between recordings are more clearly heard.
Very cool to read about the progress your making. Gives me a few ideas to play with in the basement as well 
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In my room I like the Tube Traps with the absorber side facing the listener.
Funny story...I learned this when my wife put them back with a changed orientation. (The cleaning person had moved them and the spacing was off). I had the diffuser side facing listener originally....LOL
Funny story...I learned this when my wife put them back with a changed orientation. (The cleaning person had moved them and the spacing was off). I had the diffuser side facing listener originally....LOL
That is a funny story.
I should get the nomenclature correct: diffuser side and absorber side. To be clear, the absorber side now faces the listener and the diffuser side now faces the front corners of my room. I thought the diffuser was called the "reflector strip". I wonder if it scatters frequencies or reflects them back out like a mirror. The ability to fine tune these traps by rotating them makes them very adaptable to different environments and tastes. Well, absorption seems to work best in my room right now. Next up I will experiment with those two Acoustic Revive diffuser panels currently located between my Tube Traps.
Jimmy S, the sound is now considerably different from when you heard it last Spring. You had described the Q3s as letting you hear exactly what is on the recording. That is still quite true as far as I know, or until I hear a pair of speakers that are even more transparent, but with these latest improvements, I would add that if the recording is good enough, what one hears is music in real space. It is less mechanical sounding and just a bit more real sounding. The system continues to evolve in the right direction.
You are very welcome, Peter. I had expected that the tube trap rotation would make a significant difference, but I was not prepared for such a transformative one. On the Kremer/Bach solo violin recording I heard what I expected but to a greater degree, yet especially on the Holst Planets the sound was different in surprising ways, and all for the better.
With your new speaker positioning a few inches more into the room, and slight adjustment of toe-in, the highs were more pronounced than before, and in the Kremer/Bach it was just too much. The tube trap rotation took care of that, nicely allowing the wood component of the violin sound to once again come through.
Holst Planets after the tube trap rotation: The extreme highs (cymbal crashes and triangles) remained as prominent as before, but overall the integration of highs and mids was better, more of one continuum. The image before had been relatively large, but I was really surprised just how HUGE the sound became after the simple tube trap rotation. It was grand indeed, and the energy completely filled the room, it was an immersive experience. Yet imaging within the soundstage was very precise. Resolution in terms of separation of instruments was outstanding.
At the same time the sound gained even more body, it was a really meaty, impressive orchestral presentation. Trombones and low strings had more weight, as did the kettle drums in 'Uranus'. I thought I could also hear the skin of the kettle drums more as they were hit. The massed violins had sounded a bit thin before, but now gained a beautiful weighty but still silky tone. In 'Venus' the difference between massed violins and solo violin was more pronounced.
A part of how good it eventually sounded may also have been the new 33 1/3 rpm pressing of the recording that you recently acquired. Dynamics were outstanding.
The tube trap is adjustable between absorption and diffusion, scattering of sound:
https://www.acousticsciences.com/products/tube-trap
The "reflector strip" is a diffuser:
http://www.asc-hifi.com/soundpanel.htm
Currently I also have the tube traps with absorptive side towards the listener. Before I had the ZenWave D4 interconnects, I had a more subdued treble with the Monster 2000 interconnects and had the diffusive side out to the listener.
I recently moved my compressor from the living/listening room down to my basement. The air tubes run through holes in the floor along with the AC lines. For the first time in years, I took the opportunity to retest the effect of the Vibraplanes on the overall sound of my system. I first installed them about eight years ago, and there have been a few component changes, including the switch from a two way monitor speaker to a full range floor standing speaker. So I was curious to hear again after all these years what the Vibraplanes actually do to the sound.
Over the weekend, I deflated the three units and moved the compressor to the basement. I listened to a string trio recording and to Holst's Planets on LP. The initial impression was that the sound became very detailed with an emphasis on transients, the leading edge of notes and string texture. However, the scale decreased and the sound became a bit recessed. Everything was a bit flat sounding and the image never left the zone between my speakers.
Upon inflating the Vibraplanes, the scale immediately expanded. The sound filled the room more and left the plane of the speakers. The stage grew wider and deeper in the corners. But what really impressed me was the expansion of sound into the room and around the listener. The entire room was now filled with sound and presence. There was much better bass definition and extension which contributed to a more balanced and natural sound. The detail was still there, it was just not as pronounced or forward in the middle and high frequencies as the lower frequencies were now more in the mix. This added to the perception of hall atmosphere and spatial cues which must account for the expanded staging and sense of presence. The sound became much more dimensional, grounded and solid and there was a depth and articulation to the orchestral sound with tampani, brass, and celli that was just not present without the Vibraplanes.
Over the weekend, I deflated the three units and moved the compressor to the basement. I listened to a string trio recording and to Holst's Planets on LP. The initial impression was that the sound became very detailed with an emphasis on transients, the leading edge of notes and string texture. However, the scale decreased and the sound became a bit recessed. Everything was a bit flat sounding and the image never left the zone between my speakers.
Upon inflating the Vibraplanes, the scale immediately expanded. The sound filled the room more and left the plane of the speakers. The stage grew wider and deeper in the corners. But what really impressed me was the expansion of sound into the room and around the listener. The entire room was now filled with sound and presence. There was much better bass definition and extension which contributed to a more balanced and natural sound. The detail was still there, it was just not as pronounced or forward in the middle and high frequencies as the lower frequencies were now more in the mix. This added to the perception of hall atmosphere and spatial cues which must account for the expanded staging and sense of presence. The sound became much more dimensional, grounded and solid and there was a depth and articulation to the orchestral sound with tampani, brass, and celli that was just not present without the Vibraplanes.
Good call on the Vibraplanes, Peter.
Coincidentally I just noticed this morning that the Stacore under my tt had deflated a little under the 1/2" elevation recommended.
Not bad since its been in continuous use for 9 months under the tt.
Inflating things definitely produced the results you've found, just a greater sense of bloom in the room, w no loss of agility.
You're not imagining things LOL.
Coincidentally I just noticed this morning that the Stacore under my tt had deflated a little under the 1/2" elevation recommended.
Not bad since its been in continuous use for 9 months under the tt.
Inflating things definitely produced the results you've found, just a greater sense of bloom in the room, w no loss of agility.
You're not imagining things LOL.
Peter, I haven't kept up. I recall at one point, I believe you had one Vibraplane under the 30/12 and maybe four or five Townshend isolation platforms under other components. Under which components do you now use Vibraplanes vs the Townshends?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Hello Bazelio. My configuration has not changed for years. I have three Vibraplanes total - one under each Pass Labs mono amp, and one under the 30/12 and its motor controller. I have five Townshend Seismic Sinks - under my power distribution box, my phono amp and its power supply, and my preamp and its power supply. The latter are all on the shelves on my custom rack. The TSS are a bit finicky and very old, so they lose air. It is hard to find replacement parts, but they are an effective and inexpensive solution. I bought them used.
Yeah, OK, I'd forgotten you were running mono blocks, so that's where the 3 comes from... Good feedback on the differences with them inactive. I'd actually be interested if you could deactivate just the 30/12 while leaving the monos active, and vice versa. Just for another datapoint as to whether or not the amp vs the table isolation is a bigger contributor.
Peter, I think that it’s great you did that experiment as long as you were rerouting the tubes.
I am anticipating similar results with Stacores under the amplifiers.
I am anticipating similar results with Stacores under the amplifiers.
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