Sublime Sound
- Thread starter PeterA
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Looks like a well executed custom made arm pod. I'm guessing lots of particular measurements to get right. Did you design it yourself?
I see many turntables with outboard arm pods but I never used that configuration. One thing I've always wondered about is getting them into and keeping them perfectly in place. Knowing you like to change VTA for individual records and many folks use a deck of cards to do that with the 3012R, do you face any issues with arm pod stability when adjusting the arm? Is the pod somehow fixed to your table's platform?
Nice job!
I see many turntables with outboard arm pods but I never used that configuration. One thing I've always wondered about is getting them into and keeping them perfectly in place. Knowing you like to change VTA for individual records and many folks use a deck of cards to do that with the 3012R, do you face any issues with arm pod stability when adjusting the arm? Is the pod somehow fixed to your table's platform?
Nice job!
I have always had a worry about this also. I am always afraid of somehow moving the pod and screwing up the carefully set geometry. Audiophile nervosa would develop quickly! (“Something sounds a bit different. Did I hit the pod without realizing it?” Oh no! I hope DDK can come back soon!”)
But we seem to be wrong.
The top of the line Kuzma uses the detached pod system. So does the DaVinci turntable, and quite a few others.
In concept keeping the base of the tonearm detached from the plinth is a great design because of the isolation it naturally achieves.
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Thank you gentleman for your nice comments. The project has been a long one. I designed the arm pod, wrote the specifications, made the drawings, and hired a local machinist to make it for me. He also made a matching top plate/armboard out of brass for comparison purposes.
The armpod weighs a total of 40 lbs. It has three adjustable feet. It can be moved, but not easily. As I continue to fine tune the 3012R arm, I play with VTA and the arm pod has never even budged. As you can see, the dimensions are tight. I made three different wooden prototypes to confirm dimensions. It is designed to also work for my V-12 arm and it can be located on either the rear or left side of the table. The 30/12 turntable is not symmetrical, so each side dimension presents different challenges, as do the dimensions of the steel ballast plate on which the turntable rests.
So far, the project seems to be a complete success. The sound is excellent. I have made many other small changes to my system and room over the last month or so, so it is far too early to assess the performance of arm or a comparison with the other arm. The system/room sound has been too unstable. I can say that I am vey impressed with the SME 3012R and understand now why was, and continues to be so highly regarded. It seems a good match to my Master Signature.
I plan to open a new thread devoted to this arm pod project. And some day in the future, I may devote the effort to do a rigorous direct comparisons between the two SME arms. This morning I look forward to mounting my MSL Sig Gold back onto the V-12 arm. One order of business is to assess the slight sibilance I heard from the Master Signature on the V-12. It seems somewhat less on the 3012R.
One thing I should add: This armpod project has given me a new respect for the quality of certain audio products like those from SME and I now understand more about the effort and extreme care that goes into these small scale projects. David Karmeli's AS200 and Nothing Rack, for example, and so many other well executed designs, make my relatively simple armpod seem like child's play. My appreciation for what it takes to pull something like those projects off, and then be able to sell them, has grown immensely.
The armpod weighs a total of 40 lbs. It has three adjustable feet. It can be moved, but not easily. As I continue to fine tune the 3012R arm, I play with VTA and the arm pod has never even budged. As you can see, the dimensions are tight. I made three different wooden prototypes to confirm dimensions. It is designed to also work for my V-12 arm and it can be located on either the rear or left side of the table. The 30/12 turntable is not symmetrical, so each side dimension presents different challenges, as do the dimensions of the steel ballast plate on which the turntable rests.
So far, the project seems to be a complete success. The sound is excellent. I have made many other small changes to my system and room over the last month or so, so it is far too early to assess the performance of arm or a comparison with the other arm. The system/room sound has been too unstable. I can say that I am vey impressed with the SME 3012R and understand now why was, and continues to be so highly regarded. It seems a good match to my Master Signature.
I plan to open a new thread devoted to this arm pod project. And some day in the future, I may devote the effort to do a rigorous direct comparisons between the two SME arms. This morning I look forward to mounting my MSL Sig Gold back onto the V-12 arm. One order of business is to assess the slight sibilance I heard from the Master Signature on the V-12. It seems somewhat less on the 3012R.
One thing I should add: This armpod project has given me a new respect for the quality of certain audio products like those from SME and I now understand more about the effort and extreme care that goes into these small scale projects. David Karmeli's AS200 and Nothing Rack, for example, and so many other well executed designs, make my relatively simple armpod seem like child's play. My appreciation for what it takes to pull something like those projects off, and then be able to sell them, has grown immensely.
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Ron, I get your reticence. I guess if these pods are heavy/massy enough and totally anchored down, the concept can work. As evidenced by Da Vinci, Torqueo, Kuzma etc. And now Peter.
SYSTEM UPDATE:
My system and room have been in flux for about a month. After reading some recent discussions about tweeks, platforms, room treatments, power cords, I have decided to start fresh and simplify my system. I will slowly reintroduce items as I see fit to reassess their efficacy. Right now I like the stripped down and simple system. Here is a list of items that have been removed from the system/room:
1. All pneumatic isolation: Three Vibraplanes (deflated), five Townshend Seismic Sinks
2. Transparent Audio cables
3. Audiophile power cords
4. Transparent power distribution box
5. Repositioning of my gear in the rack, moving power supplies away from phono stage
6. Four Tube Traps
7. Two Acoustic Revive sound panels
8. Furniture blanket covering fireplace
My system and room have been in flux for about a month. After reading some recent discussions about tweeks, platforms, room treatments, power cords, I have decided to start fresh and simplify my system. I will slowly reintroduce items as I see fit to reassess their efficacy. Right now I like the stripped down and simple system. Here is a list of items that have been removed from the system/room:
1. All pneumatic isolation: Three Vibraplanes (deflated), five Townshend Seismic Sinks
2. Transparent Audio cables
3. Audiophile power cords
4. Transparent power distribution box
5. Repositioning of my gear in the rack, moving power supplies away from phono stage
6. Four Tube Traps
7. Two Acoustic Revive sound panels
8. Furniture blanket covering fireplace
i think it's right to be fearful of the potential issues with a free standing arm pod/base. but i think it will vary from situation to situation how concerning it needs to be. things as mundane as how cramped things are in your room, who might bump it, how comfortable you are checking alignment, and how difficult it might be to check alignment, are things to consider first. then there is how stable and grippy the base is and how likely is it to slide.
i now have a free standing arm pod on the CS Port where i never had one before. and the arm box/pod has hard metal footers on a smooth granite shelf surface. so it might be a problem. in Mik's room he uses sorbathane spacers between the arm box and plinth of the CS Port to keep things properly in place. but he has turntables everywhere and said he tends to bump against things navigating. and his shelf is low and so not as comfortable to always easily reach and see. i have my tt's up, with plenty of room, at an easy height and so no reason for mine to be jostled. it's a dedicated space and so nothing to worry about there.
but the aces in the hole are that (1) the alignment jig is just amazing and super easy and quick to do, so checking is no issue at all, and (2) a separate arm box sounds better.
Very excited to hear your thoughts !
My guess for biggest improvment is the blanket and the tube traps.
I'm not getting the deflated Vibraplanes. Is this in anticipation of an A/B versus them reflated as per correct purpose?
Thanks GMKF. Do you mean biggest improvement for sound quality with or without the blanket and tube traps? Of course, I will listen again to decide which I prefer after my armpod project settles and I reinstall another cartridge in my other arm. Al M. made the comment the other night just after I had removed all of the sound treatments, that he thought the basic sound character of my room is quite good. It is lively, but somewhat damped by the furniture and rug. The walls are 225 years old and made of very heave plaster/horsehair and wood lathe over large timbers. They do not resonate in the same way that modern sheetrock over 16" pine studs walls resonate. We will see.
i think this is a 'ddk-if-ication' of Peter's system to then allow each tweak to re-earn his confidence.
getting a base line. a cleansing.
check back in 6 months.
Hi Marc, as you know, the Vibraplanes are extremely heavy at 150 lbs each, and they have 136lb steel ballast plates on them. It is too much effort to remove them completely for quick testing. While reading the threads on tweaks and panzerholz, I saw a comment that pneumatic isolation can rob the system of harmonics. I am in constant search for improvements, and I had had these in my system for about ten years now, so I deflated them to see if after all of these years, by impressions, or preferences had changed. They change the sound, surely, in the areas of bass reproduction, but also, as was suggested, in the area of harmonics or energy. I don't yet know which I prefer as there are so many other changes happening right now. Time will tell.
For now, I am still experimenting. Some day, with some help from my audio buddies, I may remove them completely, or not. We will see.
Exactly right, Mike.
David has been extremely helpful to me with this armpod project and with the 3012R arm specifically, answering all sorts of questions from afar. David can be blunt, but I appreciate that approach, and I am here to hear, and to learn. I appreciate David sharing his vast experience. I am simply going back to basics, fundamentals, and building from there. A cleansing indeed. Six months may be too soon. It depends if I'm finished before sailing season starts up again.
No so sure on this one, Ron. The blanket is extremely ugly. I liked what it did before because it seemed to focus the sound and add clarity. Now I am not sure. It may be dampening things too much and robbing the sound of life. This is one reason my buddies and I go to live music events. Focus at the expense of liveliness may not be natural and over time seems a bit less convincing. I will revisit this.
taking the waters.....
https://www.historyundressed.com/2008/04/taking-waters-in-bath-england.html
enjoy!
https://www.historyundressed.com/2008/04/taking-waters-in-bath-england.html
enjoy!
i would relate this particular thing to my center RPG skyline diffuser from a few years ago. in 2008 i installed a stack of three Skyline diffusers in the center of my rear wall that helped the center image. it was there until 2014. this was when i methodically went around my room over a 9 month period and investigated every surface and slowly but surely eliminated reflective glare. at a particular point i found that this skyline was a negative once i fixed the underlying cause. this was not a linear process as i had to rethink everything. you can't see a door when a wall is in front of it. but eliminate the wall and then you see more doors. then open the doors, knock down the wall it was on, and find more doors.
find the reason the blanket helped and fix that. but the blanket was there for a reason.
i know you have a beautiful old house, and not having to put up the blanket has it's plus's.
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Marc, would you please move your recent post to a thread that discusses the Stacore product? Respectfully, this thread is my system thread, and it attempts to document and discuss changes to my system. I can read about your interest in Stacore pneumatic platforms in many other threads. I would prefer that my system thread not be another place for you to discuss your system. Thank you.
Peter, it was in response to your discussion on possibly decommissioning your Vibraplanes.
No problem, deleting posts now. Have a nice day.
No problem, deleting posts now. Have a nice day.
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