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Stacore

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Mainly because the platforms isolate in a range of frequencies that suspended turntables fail to isolate. Isolation platforms typically isolate down to 2 Hz.
Damping is another factor apart from the low resonance. In a dedicated isolation platform there is more room to design and implement various damping mechanisms.

Cheers,
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 25, 2015
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i think what might be interesting would be to try the Stacore compared to the Vibraplane. and there is the Stacore, and Stacore +.

might the additional refinement of the Stacore product over the more basic approach of the Vibraplane tip the balance of net musical performance back toward the air suspension approach compared to the steel plate/rubber gasket approach? even considering your fresh musical compass?

i don't know the answer and my question is not inferring anything. i would simply be curious about it. full disclosure; i'm contemplating the Stacore (the + won't handle the weight) for my CS Port LFT1. and so am curious for myself.
Dear Mike,

Is it correct that the LFT1 has no integrated turntable suspension?

In the last photo I saw the LFT1 was placed directly onto the Adona stand tabletop. Was there a later photo showing the LFT1 on an isolation platform?

Have you experimented with placing the LFT1 on a Tana/Herzan?
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Ron, I think the consensus reached by all is that belt drive is not best served by active. Passive solutions like Stacore have a major advantage here.

The question then is whether Stacore as a ground-up audiophile solution passive platform w multiple approaches incl extreme mass, pneumatics, ball bearings, and constrained layer approach, indeed properly beats alternatives like Minus K and Vibraplane.

Purely from a specs pov, Minus K should be unbeatable, with a resonant frequency well under 1Hz. However, it really failed in my system, being audible in all the wrong ways. The Stacore beat it so easily, it was no contest.

After a few years now of having a ton of stuff in to test and demo, it's become easier to discern what's euphinically coloured, or just plain coloured wrong, and what is essentially inaudible in itself, only apparent as a flowering of the sound with top to bottom impvts, and no downsides.

And Stacore fits into that latter category, to my ears reserved for so few products. It's a fact that it's been the very foundation for a totally revolutionised analog sound in my room, that after my comparisons w Minus K and active Kuraka, shown to be wholly superior, makes it hugely special and totally irreplaceable here.
 
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PeterA

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Could I please ask that you take the isolation discussion for Mike’s turntable to another thread?
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Dear Mike,

Is it correct that the LFT1 has no integrated turntable suspension?

In the last photo I saw the LFT1 was placed directly onto the Adona stand tabletop. Was there a later photo showing the LFT1 on an isolation platform?

Have you experimented with placing the LFT1 on a Tana/Herzan?
no, and no intention of trying it either. and if i did want to try it, i would need the TS-300 active shelf, which is larger and more spendy than the TS-140. i could maybe put the motor and plinth on a TS-140 to see of there was any sensed noise. but really little chance of no noise.

we have learned a few things about active in the last few years. one of those things is that any turntable with self noise, meaning resonance that can be sensed through their plinth, won't work for active. it causes a feedback loop of noise which at best reduces performance, and eventually would burn out the active unit.

i know that includes my idler drive Saskia model two because i personally tried it. and i am pretty sure any belt drive, particularly a belt drive without a suspension like my CS Port LFT1, or the AS-2000, would not be candidates. maybe there is a suspended belt drive out there that might work, but i'm skeptical.

the precision of the Herzan active is it's downfall in this question. it has a high threshold for sensing resonance.
 
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May 30, 2010
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Ron, I think the consensus reached by all is that belt drive is not best served by active. Passive solutions like Stacore have a major advantage here. (...)
Well, I would say that it is a consensus of a very few ... I can't see any technical reason why passive solutions have advantages in belt driven turntables. IMHO each turntable will be a different case, unless we try it we are just guessing.
 
May 30, 2010
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(...) i know that includes my idler drive Saskia model two because i personally tried it. and i am pretty sure any belt drive, particularly a belt drive without a suspension like my CS Port LFT1, or the AS-2000, would not be candidates. maybe there is a suspended belt drive out there that might work, but i'm skeptical.

the precision of the Herzan active is it's downfall in this question. it has a high threshold for sensing resonance.
Mike,
I can easily see why these particular turntables are not adequate to active tables. But for example, I expect active tables to to sound good with the SME30.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Well, I would say that it is a consensus of a very few ... I can't see any technical reason why passive solutions have advantages in belt driven turntables. IMHO each turntable will be a different case, unless we try it we are just guessing.
Yes I haven't seen any consensus on this either. Also very difficult to get any finding apart from theoretical discussion given not everyone has a Minus K, Herzan, and a few different passives with them at the same time with various TTs.
 

PeterA

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I guess people want to keep discussing this in my system thread. So all I would add is that I have tried passive pneumatic isolation From two manufacturers under all of my components including a turntable. I have decided to remove them from my system for the reasons I have explained earlier in the thread.

I have no interest in trying active isolation unless someone designs an active isolation device for objects that move.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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I guess people want to keep discussing this in my system thread. So all I would add is that I have tried passive pneumatic isolation From two manufacturers under all of my components including a turntable. I have decided to remove them from my system for the reasons I have explained earlier in the thread.

I have no interest in trying active isolation unless someone designs an active isolation device for objects that move.
i started a new thread away from Peter's system thread for any that want to continue this topic of high level turntable anti-resonance platform choices here;

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...ir-bladder-stacore-platforms-or-others.30538/
 
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Kingrex

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Feb 4, 2019
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20200417_095505.jpg 20200412_095620.jpg

I was trying to get my speaker horn at ear height. I cut up a piece of left over beam that spanned my garage door. That chunk of wood is probably 60 lbs. I put it on 1" fiberglass insulation to protect my floor. Neither has changed for close to a year. I don't know what did it, but the bass was spectacularly improved.

Under the homemade amp stands made from 2" acrylic and the amps on top, I have placed all sorts of material. The Audion amps like harder materials that seem to bring out detail. My Kt77 PP amps liked something a tad softer. They liked their own feet on the stand and a block of corian with the 1" fiberglass matt under that. Its all about tuning to the specific gear.
 
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PeterA

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Great stuff, Kingrex. One size does not fit all, and experimentation does seem to provide dividends. Very interesting looking speakers. Do you have a system thread or link which describes them in some detail?
 

PeterA

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Pass Labs XP-32 preamp added

IMG_0249.jpg

IMG_0252.jpg
 
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ack

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Beautiful! Looking forward to impressions
 

PeterA

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Yes me too .
I think many people underestimate the importance of pre amps .
You went from XP 22 to the XP 32 if im not mistaken
Yes. I have had many Pass preamps and phono stages. This particular upgrade is by far the most significant. I will be writing a report of my listening impressions and posting it in the dedicated Pass Labs XP-32 thread that MAXPWR started. I think Wayne Colburn has made some major improvements marked by the developed the XS pre and phono.

After seventeen days with 24/7 digital music on a loop to break the unit in, this XP-32 is still settling down, but most of the changes have occured. As you say, I had not fully appreciated the importance of the preamp in the chain. I guess it took a really good one for me to understand this.
 
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Vienna

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That’s great news Peter.
XP 22 was my preamp before getting the Pandora
I was always wondering how much better the XP 32 would be
 

PeterA

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