Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

I agree completely. However, files that stream from Qobuz/Tidal are subject to the whole network as well which is why I don't see why they would be immune to the issues that NAS files are.

Let's theorize. What if plugging/powering on a NAS into your network is audible, even when streaming Tidal/Qobuz or when playing local files. And what if actually accessing it has an effect too. The question could then become if the increased activity from your NAS or from your ISP modem is more harmful.

 

[dminches]

Let's theorize. What if plugging/powering on a NAS into your network is audible, even when streaming Tidal/Qobuz or when playing local files. And what if actually accessing it has an effect too. The question could then become if the increased activity from your NAS or from your ISP modem is more harmful.

Good points. I would think that all the other non-audio network activity would also have an effect on this.

What I am realizing in this discussion is that having an LPS on my ISP modem is something I should consider given that I am now streaming from Qobuz at times.

 

[Blackmorec]

Just so you’re aware, this is the type and calibre of the power supply used in consumer network electronics. When i replaced all these with high quality LPSs I got major SQ improvements. The thing to realise is that quality may be already excellent using these supplies, but can still get a lot better. I’m utterly amazed at the SQ that’s possible from a lowly 16-44.1 file when stuff like this is removed from the chain.

 

[Sablon Audio]

What I am realizing in this discussion is that having an LPS on my ISP modem is something I should consider given that I am now streaming from Qobuz at times.

There’s a big uptick waiting for you when you do this David. The Hynes SR4 is a good option.

 

[ketcham]

The single and most impressive improvement to my overall quality in streaming was placing an Sbooster mkII that had upgraded by one of the US Sbooster dealers Paul Hovenga at ManyMoons Audio on my internet modem.

This single placement out performed LPS placement on my Orbi 6 router and switch. Sboosters are very reasonably priced and like both Paul Hynes and Steve Nugent's (Empirical Audio) Dynamo LPS - are well designed and supply current immediately on demand and optimize performance of your component. Sboosters are priced well and readily available. Highly Recommended. Network optimization I am certain has been discussed in many other dedicated threads.

However, this point is relevant here.

 

[steve williams]

The single and most impressive improvement to my overall quality in streaming was placing an Sbooster mkII that had upgraded by one of the US Sbooster dealers Paul Hovenga at ManyMoons Audio on my internet modem.

This single placement out performed LPS placement on my Orbi 6 router and switch. Sboosters are very reasonably priced and like both Paul Hynes and Steve Nugent's (Empirical Audio) Dynamo LPS - are well designed and supply current immediately on demand and optimize performance of your component. Sboosters are priced well and readily available. Highly Recommended. Network optimization I am certain has been discussed in many other dedicated threads.

However, this point is relevant here.

Very interesting post. I'm curious that the Netgear Orbi is not on the approved list

What size current draw did you go with?

 

[Alinous]

The LPS 1.2 12v linear power supply on my D-link router
allowed very significant SQ gains for a low cost compared to other much more expensive improvements

 

[CKKeung]

I have mentioned this trick a few times before on WBF :
Replace all the switching poswer-supplies in your audio system with linear power-supplies.

Switching poswer-supplies are so damaging that removing them from your CAS can improve sonic performance of your other playback chains too, such as your LP system, CD players ...etc.

Simple and effective!
Zero negative effect.

 

[ctydwn]

Wanted to quickly thank everyone on this thread for the trove of information, comparisons and optimization recs. As a result, I have taken the plunge and eagerly await the Extreme's arrival.
Special thanks to Emile for patiently answering all my questions. I could not have imagined a more pleasant experience.

 

[howiebrou]

Wanted to quickly thank everyone on this thread for the trove of information, comparisons and optimization recs. As a result, I have taken the plunge and eagerly await the Extreme's arrival.
Special thanks to Emile for patiently answering all my questions. I could not have imagined a more pleasant experience.

Congratulations. Pls share with us your impressions and photos once your extreme arrives!

 

[jturbo]

Good points. I would think that all the other non-audio network activity would also have an effect on this.

What I am realizing in this discussion is that having an LPS on my ISP modem is something I should consider given that I am now streaming from Qobuz at times.

It sounds like the switching power supplies would degrade SQ by polluting the AC power side and also allowing noise into the server thru the ethernet port, regardless if the lan network is transferring packets from streaming or a nas.

 

[Kris]

I did something in addition.
I had very bad network to start with.
Followed the LPS recomendations and that was VERY importatnt step up.

But had also different idea.
I asked my internet provider to create SEPARATE network line exclusive for my audio system.
I am linked with my server to the main Network server in the networking company point to point .
also this line is out of the other users. Separate swich for me at network company office.

At home I Followed the same steps.
Created this line EXCLUSIVE and only for audio, no one else is
using this network at home.
my family has separate swiches and separate line to the network company.
From my swich I use Startech 1G recommended by Emile . Fantastic result.
from main audio swich direct to my server with cat 7 most expensive industrial Oehlbach HPOCC Hyperstream network cable .

I know this might be difficult for some to do, but it works very well.

Again there is separate , totally exvlusive line all the way direct from internet provider server to my server.
there is zero other network devices connected to it on both sides ( home and server provider)
separating the network for audio line gives great results.

now I am also Trying to get the highest priority for my exclusive swich on the network provider end .
this needs to wait Besause requires some switch and server setup on their end.

 

[jaynyc]

I would agree to "commercial" NAS file playback sound quality starting to increasingly falling behind local file playback and has even fallen behind Tidal/Qobuz playback quality in our office here.

@Taiko Audio when you write "commercial" NAS, do you mean
(a) QNAP / Synology units
(b) audiophile NAS units like Lumin L1, Melco, etc
(c) custom built pcs running Minimserver like https://silentpc.com/fanless-pcs/small-xeon-fanless
(d) something else _____

?

Thanks
--jay

 

[Taiko Audio]

@jaynyc answer A
@Kris I only know of one other person who went through comparable lengths!

 

[dminches]

I did something in addition.
I had very bad network to start with.
Followed the LPS recomendations and that was VERY importatnt step up.

But had also different idea.
I asked my internet provider to create SEPARATE network line exclusive for my audio system.
I am linked with my server to the main Network server in the networking company point to point .
also this line is out of the other users. Separate swich for me at network company office.

I think this is a great idea but I don't think there is any way to get my ISP to do this.

Maybe I should get satellite-based internet.

 

[jturbo]

FWIW,

I have analyzed streaming downloads from Tidal while playing items in ROON.
Roon will download a song and begin to play and will download at least the next song while the current song is playing.

For much of the time that a song is playing, there is no/minimal network activity coming into the roon server., except when pre fetching the next song in the queue, which may only take a few seconds to a minute ( ISP download speed dependant). As such, im not sure that having a separate line, or high quality of service from the ISP would make much/any difference. As far as I can tell, the song exists only in memory once it is downloaded and waiting to be streamed.

A server on a lan segment will experience a CPU interrupt for each broadcast packet, multicast packet or directly addressed packet that it 'sees'. Also, as the traffic itself, must introduce EMF/EMI into the server thru the ethernet port, it is good to limit the amount of traffic to the server. For this reason, I have setup my server on its own VLAN and separate routed segment. This will limit the amount of traffic that the server needs to process to only packets addresses directly to the server from the firewall/router which is passing traffic to the server from tital/qobuz amd will eliminate the broadcast/multicast packets that are being generated but the devices throughout the rest of the house.

I would also suggest creating a back-to-back ethernet cable network between the Server and Ethernet DAC for the same reasons. This will keep the DAC from having to process spurious traffic which is seen by having the Ethernet DAC plugged directly into the network used by the rest of the house. Your music server will need to be setup as a DHCP server to offer up an IP address to the DAC, unless the dac can have an IP address set manually. My lampi Pacific dac needs a DHCP server (for example).

 

[isquirrel]

Hello iSquirrel,
May I know the spec of the two SR Orange Fuses you used on the Select DAC Mono-Powerbases?
Thanks!

They are 1 x 5A 250V Slow Blow and 1 x 100ma 250V Slow Blow for the standby power (you don't really need to change this one) for each power supply.

 

[Blackmorec]

I did something in addition.
I had very bad network to start with.
Followed the LPS recomendations and that was VERY importatnt step up.

But had also different idea.
I asked my internet provider to create SEPARATE network line exclusive for my audio system.
I am linked with my server to the main Network server in the networking company point to point .
also this line is out of the other users. Separate swich for me at network company office.

At home I Followed the same steps.
Created this line EXCLUSIVE and only for audio, no one else is
using this network at home.
my family has separate swiches and separate line to the network company.
From my swich I use Startech 1G recommended by Emile . Fantastic result.
from main audio swich direct to my server with cat 7 most expensive industrial Oehlbach HPOCC Hyperstream network cable .

I know this might be difficult for some to do, but it works very well.

Again there is separate , totally exvlusive line all the way direct from internet provider server to my server.
there is zero other network devices connected to it on both sides ( home and server provider)
separating the network for audio line gives great results.

now I am also Trying to get the highest priority for my exclusive swich on the network provider end .
this needs to wait Besause requires some switch and server setup on their end.

Hi Kris,
Where are you based and who is your ISP? I’d like to try to understand a little better what you’re talking about and the type of Internet topology employed, so I can find the equivalent here in the UK.

 

[Kris]

Blacmorec
you can easy create separate line by adding SECOND network connection From same or separate internet provider.
this way you will isolate this line from all home related traffic.

the problem starts when you want to create the same on the other end.
I was lucky because this is small company and I know owner personally.
for bigger company I would ask them just to make sure your ping is as small as possible and you have a high downlowd rate . They could give you higher priority on the swich on their end, because this swich will be very busy with other costumers.
alternative you can tell them you will pay for their swich so it is separate from others with linear power supply and than connected direct to their server.
they might like idea of free swich and supply ...

 

[Blackmorec]

Blacmorec
you can easy create separate line by adding SECOND network connection From same or separate internet provider.
this way you will isolate this line from all home related traffic.

the problem starts when you want to create the same on the other end.
I was lucky because this is small company and I know owner personally.
for bigger company I would ask them just to make sure your ping is as small as possible and you have a high downlowd rate . They could give you higher priority on the swich on their end, because this swich will be very busy with other costumers.
alternative you can tell them you will pay for their swich so it is separate from others with linear power supply and than connected direct to their server.
they might like idea of free swich and supply ...

Thanks Kris. The closest you’ll get to that here in the U.K. is a leased line from your local street cabinet. What i use, that seems to work very well is a 3 band router with one 5GHz band dedicated solely to audio. It provides roughly 500 Mbps with no traffic other than the audio stream so the network is only active for a very small fraction of each second and has absolute uninterrupted priority