Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Rhapsody]

This is interesting, it seems that I am the only "heretic" who thinks that music with a good Switch sounds better than with the Switch disconnected.

Not sure I follow you Franscisco. I said in several posts above the system with the two M12 switches sounded better than with the switches disconnected. See below. I also think the LPS's are more important than the switches themselves.

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After approximately 250 hours on the usb card I was using a straight copper lan cable to the Extreme. The sound with TAS/usb driver/usb card was/is AMAZING to my old ears. Even Roon sounded great with the usb card, but not at the level of TAS/driver/card.

Today I inserted the two each M12 switches with the Optimo LPS's back into the network preceding the Extreme new usb card input.

The uptick in SQ was not subtle.

I could live without the network gear very happily, although at this point the two M12's/LPS with all JCAT Sig Gold switch are staying in the system.

 

[cat6man]

OK, I've been meaning to ask about this for awhile. On the TAS Beta Manual, Playing Control Screen, there is a button with crossed arrows inside a circle. In the manual, it says "Don't Use." Is this some kind of a test?

wil:
please volunteer and push that button, then report back here.
we'll all stand behind you!

 

[wil]

Hold on, I need to put on my safety glasses first....

 

[Rhapsody]

Hold on, I need to put on my safety glasses first....

It's actually a trap door to an "alternate universe".....put your seat belt on.

 

[dminches]

Is there any way to make the font smaller on the screen which has the album covers when you are browsing for music? Anything with over 20 characters gets cut off. Or can you zoom out on the entire screen?

I am using the iOS app.

 

[nuway]

Updated list, @nuway if you changed DACs meanwhile please let me know.

Impact of network configuration unchanged:
1x Chord Dave - Amanero - HQPlayer - fiber

Impact of network configuration reduced or non existent:
2x Lampizator Pacific - XMOS 2 - TAS - copper
2x Lampizator Pacific - XMOS 2 - Roon - copper
1x Pilium Elektra - XMOS 2 - TAS - copper
1x MSB Select - XMOS 2 - TAS - copper
1x Aqua Formula XHD - XMOS 2 - TAS - copper
1x T+A MP3100HV - U-hear - TAS - fiber

It would be nice to have feedback on more setups where network tweaks still have a significant impact on perceived sound quality. I understand it's a tedious job to run these comparisons but it can be of significant help in pinpointing the cause of network side sensitivity. Of particular interest to me right now would be DACs with a first generation XMOS interface, like a Totaldac. The obvious issue there is these exceed USB spec which is a 495mA current draw causing the management controller to disable the USB port, they also draw a 6.48A initial charge peak which I was suspecting to be the issue first, however this is below the allowed 8ms allowed time duration:

View attachment 76846

By design for USB2/3 the USB port is disabled when it crosses 495mA of current draw for 8 milliseconds. The Extreme onboard controller allows a higher current draw (USB 3.1) so we did not run into this before. We are looking into how to bypass the protection for Totaldacs, it appears to be very near "off spec" as some do work.

Yes, sure

 

[Mike Lavigne]

joined the Taiko USB card club about 30 minutes ago.....a little late to the party. having a look around my new digital musical landscape......and like what i hear. a new paradigm i think.

 

[2ndLiner]

Other than Steve Z I thought it was a little quiet in the Northwest!

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . Chris Connaker interviews Grammy Award winning Sound Engineer Bill Schnee where he gives some insight into the recording process.
Very interesting particularly his take on tape vs. vinyl vs. digital from 53';00
Plenty of other interesting personal stories about his relationship with Doug Sax and his experience of recording Whintey Houston/Barbara Streisand/Beatles.

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/podc...t-1-grammy-winner-bill-schnee-interview-r999/

Thank you very much for posting this! I loved listening to this interview!

My father worked for Clive Davis at both CBS and at Arista, so I particularly enjoyed hearing the Whitney Houston stories.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

the USB card addition after a few hours.......impressions and SWAG dot connecting;

---a couple of strong references destroyed. Anna Netrebko's, Sempre Libera (88/24 file), track 11, sounds like a whole new recording with my most used reference. much more focused and dynamic, with Anna's voice much more real, previous distortions gone, the glass harmonica now so clear and refined. i thought i knew it before. an ease and naturalness now. 'Keith Don't Go' (redbook file) another re-born recording. focus, textures and music where it was relatively edgy and confused previously. a new definition of holographic. who knew?

---not done any vinyl compares.....yet. my expectation (after break-in) would be that most of my analog based vinyl will continue to be in another league based on my vinyl gear (YMMV). OTOH i expect my digitally sourced vinyl (30-40% of my current vinyl buys, 10-15% of my vinyl collection) to likely struggle to stay ahead and justify their place on my rack. might this effect my future vinyl acquisitions? it might, and a subject i will need to sort out.

----i expect that this will now allow files to clearly jump ahead of discs going forward. doubt a transport will be able to compete with a ripped file played back with the combo i'm using. i will watch for this idea to be investigated.

i've only played my files so far.

 

[heebrog]

Bill Schnee addressed this very issue of “digital” vinyl on the podcast I linked earlier.

 

[totaldac]

Updated list, @nuway if you changed DACs meanwhile please let me know.

Impact of network configuration unchanged:
1x Chord Dave - Amanero - HQPlayer - fiber

Impact of network configuration reduced or non existent:
2x Lampizator Pacific - XMOS 2 - TAS - copper
2x Lampizator Pacific - XMOS 2 - Roon - copper
1x Pilium Elektra - XMOS 2 - TAS - copper
1x MSB Select - XMOS 2 - TAS - copper
1x Aqua Formula XHD - XMOS 2 - TAS - copper
1x T+A MP3100HV - U-hear - TAS - fiber

It would be nice to have feedback on more setups where network tweaks still have a significant impact on perceived sound quality. I understand it's a tedious job to run these comparisons but it can be of significant help in pinpointing the cause of network side sensitivity. Of particular interest to me right now would be DACs with a first generation XMOS interface, like a Totaldac. The obvious issue there is these exceed USB spec which is a 495mA current draw causing the management controller to disable the USB port, they also draw a 6.48A initial charge peak which I was suspecting to be the issue first, however this is below the allowed 8ms allowed time duration:

View attachment 76846

By design for USB2/3 the USB port is disabled when it crosses 495mA of current draw for 8 milliseconds. The Extreme onboard controller allows a higher current draw (USB 3.1) so we did not run into this before. We are looking into how to bypass the protection for Totaldacs, it appears to be very near "off spec" as some do work.

Hi Emile,
Yes there is a current peak when connecting or switching ON a USB power supply to the Totaldac USB input.
After this initial inrush current the current remains far below the standard USB 500mA current.
It is the first time that this inrush current makes a reported problem. Many people have used this USB input on many different computers and audio server (tested on more than 1000 systems probably). So I think that it is better to disable such a short duration peak current detector and have a security only for pretty long term over current. Even when I worked in Internet Of Things market we had to consider USB over current protection only on long term, the time to charge capacitors for example or other inrush current, even if the USB spec specifies none. Else you have problem with many equipment, sometimes only at some extreme temperature.
Once you will have added a delay on this alert you won't have any problem as there is none with all other computers and music servers.

 

[totaldac]

Hi Emile,
Yes there is a current peak when connecting or switching ON a USB power supply to the Totaldac USB input.
After this initial inrush current the current remains far below the standard USB 500mA current.
It is the first time that this inrush current makes a reported problem. Many people have used this USB input on many different computers and audio server (tested on more than 1000 systems probably). So I think that it is better to disable such a short duration peak current detector and have a security only for pretty long term over current. Even when I worked in Internet Of Things market we had to consider USB over current protection only on long term, the time to charge capacitors for example or other inrush current, even if the USB spec specifies none. Else you have problem with many equipment, sometimes only at some extreme temperature.
Once you will have added a delay on this alert you won't have any problem as there is none with all other computers and music servers.

A upgrade of the Totaldac reclocker is also almost ready, to get an even more natural, more full bodied sound and more transparent sound. The USB inrush current remains the same.

 

[Taiko Audio]

@totaldac , I emailed you the exact issue with measurements.

 

[Taiko Audio]

@all Totaldac + Extreme owners, we are shipping our reclocker to Vincent for a modification and get the above mentioned upgrade while it’s there. I’m 98% sure this will enable the usage of a Totaldac with our new USB card, and the potential improvement the upgrade itself provides sounds promising.

 

[nenon]

the USB card addition after a few hours.......impressions and SWAG dot connecting;

---a couple of strong references destroyed. Anna Netrebko's, Sempre Libera (88/24 file), track 11, sounds like a whole new recording with my most used reference. much more focused and dynamic, with Anna's voice much more real, previous distortions gone, the glass harmonica now so clear and refined. i thought i knew it before. an ease and naturalness now. 'Keith Don't Go' (redbook file) another re-born recording. focus, textures and music where it was relatively edgy and confused previously. a new definition of holographic. who knew?

---not done any vinyl compares.....yet. my expectation (after break-in) would be that most of my analog based vinyl will continue to be in another league based on my vinyl gear (YMMV). OTOH i expect my digitally sourced vinyl (30-40% of my current vinyl buys, 10-15% of my vinyl collection) to likely struggle to stay ahead and justify their place on my rack. might this effect my future vinyl acquisitions? it might, and a subject i will need to sort out.

----i expect that this will now allow files to clearly jump ahead of discs going forward. doubt a transport will be able to compete with a ripped file played back with the combo i'm using. i will watch for this idea to be investigated.

i've only played my files so far.

Give it some more time. The USB card gets even better after a few days.
Vinyl sourced from digital hardly stands a chance anymore. And that is a pretty big milestone for digital. I already lost interest of buying vinyls sourced from digital and look for vinyls sourced from the analog master tapes or as close as possible to that.
We are getting to the point where the recording and mastering matters, not whether it's digital or analog. I still have my 5% of top vinyl records that sound better than any digital I've heard, but the difference is getting smaller and smaller.
Given your SOTA analog system, it would be nice if you do another report on where your digital stands after running the USB card for 2+ weeks.

 

[dminches]

We are getting to the point where the recording and mastering matters, not whether it's digital or analog.

This.

 

[aLLeARS]

I have around 200 hours on the new USB card. As good as it sounded cold out of the box it's noticeably better with each day of run in.
I always found USB to have more detail then AES/EBU. However there was a naturalness that I got from AES/EBU that I could never quite get with USB. No matter what the USB source was.
When using AES/EBU, leading and trailing edges, tone, dynamics and imaging locking into place were always better here.
Now the new USB card not only has the upper hand in detail but it sounds more organic and natural than AES/EBU. Leading and trailing edges, tone, dynamics and imaging are all better. This is the first time that I have found USB to be a BETTER sounding audio interface than AES/EBU.
And there is the obvious benefit of USB handling higher resolution files then AES.
A big thank you and congratulations to the Taiko team!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Give it some more time. The USB card gets even better after a few days.
Vinyl sourced from digital hardly stands a chance anymore. And that is a pretty big milestone for digital. I aready lost interest of buying vinyls sourced from digital and look for vinyls sourced from the analog master tapes or as close as possible to that.
We are getting to the point where the recording and mastering matters, not whether it's digital or analog. I still have my 5% of top vinyl records that sound better than any digital I've heard, but the difference is getting smaller and smaller.
Given your SOTA analog system, it would be nice if you do another report on where your digital stands after running the USB card for 2+ weeks.

i'm open to where this might go. i am hearing 'vinyl' like inner musical reveals in familiar digitally sourced recordings for sure. spooky good stuff.

will a voice or instrument or venue come alive (suspension of disbelief) in the realm of my better (top 2/3rds of 8000 records) analog based vinyl playback? not yet hearing that. this stuff is never any sort of absolute/always thing.

and it makes sense that digital evolves to the point where the native recording format and quality become dominant in performance. and that digital playback equals vinyl for those. that is what seemingly i'm hearing now on those recordings. OTOH the analog sourced recordings in vinyl have both the format advantage (IMHO) plus the methods and creative assets used during that era as advantages. the recording process is always the most important thing. Thursday night i had a local friend over for a fun session. we did start with some digital (did not yet have the USB card installed) for a few cuts, but then it was all 45-50+ year old recordings in vinyl. that's how that mostly goes.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I’m going to have to find a way to send you some of those PureDSD direct from tape transfers, some of these go back to the 50s. It’s just a different experience.