Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

With respect to the Taiko Extreme how do you connect it to your DAC

  • USB

    Votes: 80 67.2%
  • Ethernet

    Votes: 21 17.6%
  • Both USB and Ethernet

    Votes: 12 10.1%
  • AES/EBU

    Votes: 12 10.1%
  • Dual AES/EBU

    Votes: 3 2.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 7 5.9%

  • Total voters
    119

MadFloyd

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Rhapsody

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What is the Extreme USB option? The website doesn't seem to explain it anywhere that I see...

Can you add more storage afterwards?
The new usb card is $2K in the US. You don't have to buy the new usb card when purchasing the Extreme. The Extreme comes with a standard usb output. Although it would not make sense at this point to not purchase the enhanced new usb card as it is a game changer.

Yes you can add storage at any time.
 
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kswanson27

Active Member
Nov 22, 2018
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What is the Extreme USB option? The website doesn't seem to explain it anywhere that I see...

Can you add more storage afterwards?
I believe your Yggy runs a proprietary USB interface. You might want to check with Taiko to make sure it can support the TAS USB driver. If not you'll still take a major digital leap forward with the Extreme and the USB card but it's always nicer to have it all.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Wow, some very compelling testimonials!

OK, I want one. :)
And last but never least Ian is the customer service that Taiko provides. In all of my years in this hobby I have never seen a manufacturer who seems to be available 24 x 7 and with his team of developers he has only one goal......to make a server with the very best sonic quality and IMO he has achieved this with the introduction of TAS
 

seeteeyou

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Apr 6, 2015
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If there is a caveat, this bridge does not utilize XMOS but rather a chipset from a Taiwanese company called C-Media and so this was an initial concern. Would this C-Media chipset be no better than Amanero?

FYI - just a tiny bit of correction for those of us who would like to pursue this route, it's actually manufactured by a Taiwanese company called ComTrue Inc. and the model is CT7601 as I mentioned back in January 2021 / March 2018

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-281#post-699159
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rev...phile-vortex-box.787020/page-79#post-14119139

Here's an alternative for DIY purposes

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002004061145.html
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=611313177207



In addition to CT7601, here's yet another 32fs-capable candidate that could actually emulate XMOS XU208 while a Californian audiophile already confirmed that's as good as JL Sounds I2SoverUSB v.III in the SQ department

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...ce-into-the-mix/?tab=comments#comment-1108274
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...-server/page/78/?tab=comments#comment-1115931
You see, I am not theorizing. I bought several (well, more than several) USB boards to evaluate. Same for dac boards. Reverse engineer most of them, sketching out circuits from following traces and ringing out connections with a meter. Many listening tests performed too. After enough time and effort invested, one gets to know a lot about how dacs, USB boards, etc. are designed just by looking at at pictures of them.

Obviously further gains could be achieved by going all out with this 24 MHz Ultra OCXO

https://www.pinkfaun.com/shop/clock/67-ultra-ocxo.html
https://www.pinkfaun.com/shop/sheets/PinkFaunUltra24MHz.pdf



As my 2 Chord DAVEs were already highly modified and their warranties already voided, I was not against exploring such a bypass even if it meant sacrificing one of my DAVEs and a small group of us DAVE owners did explore this.

Since we already went down that particular road, maybe those BNC connectors could also do better than?

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=161
http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=249
 
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Sampajanna

New Member
Apr 1, 2021
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FYI - just a tiny bit of correction for those of us who would like to pursue this route, it's actually manufactured by a Taiwanese company called ComTrue Inc. and the model is CT7601 as I mentioned back in January 2021 / March 2018

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-281#post-699159
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rev...phile-vortex-box.787020/page-79#post-14119139

Here's an alternative for DIY purposes

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002004061145.html
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=611313177207



In addition to CT7601, here's yet another 32fs-capable candidate that could actually emulate XMOS XU208 while a Californian audiophile already confirmed that's as good as JL Sounds I2SoverUSB v.III in the SQ department

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...ce-into-the-mix/?tab=comments#comment-1108274
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...-server/page/78/?tab=comments#comment-1115931


Obviously further gains could be achieved by going all out with this 24 MHz Ultra OCXO

https://www.pinkfaun.com/shop/clock/67-ultra-ocxo.html
https://www.pinkfaun.com/shop/sheets/PinkFaunUltra24MHz.pdf





Since we already went down that particular road, maybe those BNC connectors could also do better than?

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=161
http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=249
Would you suggest an Mscaler user also bypass the mscale’s usb?
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
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Thanks for the update.

Is the Dave not anymore in the pending list? I understood in one of Emile's posts that the Dave will be part of the next USB drive scope or did I got it wrong?

We cannot support Amanero. See the post by @romaz quoted below for the best way to go with the Dave, this will also allow you to bypass HQPlayer for offline upsampled content:

How to bypass Amanero in the Chord DAVE

As an avid longtime owner of the Chord DAVE DAC, I have enviously watched Lampizator Pacific owners surgically bypass the horribly high-latency Amanero USB chipset that came installed on their DAC courtesy of the JL Sounds XMOS board. It turns out that bypassing the Amanero bottleneck leads to what Emile describes as improved "boogie."

While I had generally been pleased with the performance of my DAVE with the Extreme, I was, of course, very curious to know just how badly Amanero was holding back the Extreme with this DAC and disappointed that this large-buffer USB chipset was the reason the Taiko ASIO USB driver could not be used with the DAVE. To put it simply, it drove me nuts.

As my 2 Chord DAVEs were already highly modified and their warranties already voided, I was not against exploring such a bypass even if it meant sacrificing one of my DAVEs and a small group of us DAVE owners did explore this. Before there was an opportunity to "surgerize" one of our DAVEs, however, Emile, who recently added a DAVE to his growing collection of DACs suggested using a USB-to-SPDIF bridge since entering DAVE via SPDIF would be one way of bypassing its Amanero USB chipset. Because the magic of DAVE lies in feeding this DAC upsampled 705/768kHz PCM material, such a bridge would need to have dual SPDIF (BNC) outputs capable of an aggregate 768kHz bandwidth which is not something you see everyday. Emile figured he would have to design one himself.

Well, it turns out such a USB to dual-BNC bridge expressly designed for Chord DACs already exists and it is currently being manufactured and sold by AudioWise (based in Canada).

View attachment 77687

If there is a caveat, this bridge does not utilize XMOS but rather a chipset from a Taiwanese company called C-Media and so this was an initial concern. Would this C-Media chipset be no better than Amanero? I communicated with Dan Mance, who owns AudioWise and he was kind enough to send me a few units for evaluation. To cut to the chase, this USB-to-dual BNC bridge is fantastic and far superior to the Amanero in DAVE. In comparison, DAVE's Amanero sounds slow and bloated and sleepy. As always, YMMV but I believe all of Dan's products come with a money back satisfaction guarantee. Not surprisingly, the quality of the USB cable and the BNCs cables matter but even with inexpensive cables, this bridge is far superior to DAVE's USB input. In my opinion, if you own an Extreme and a Chord DAVE DAC, this bridge is a "must have."

Full disclosure, I have zero financial affiliation with AudioWise.

 

Taiko Audio

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EuroDriver

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Sep 17, 2015
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I hope everyone has seen this video and read the AS thread.
There is an Extreme owner with a pretty high end system, who told me that on quiet music passages streaming from Tidal he can hear high frequency noise. He also the original track, and that does not have this high frequency noise.

So it would seem that Tidal have transitioned from Lossy to Lossless to "Added"

A matter of personal listening taste if the "Added" is enjoyable or not.

Taiko is committed to deliver all source material, either stored or streaming, "as is"
 

Taiko Audio

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MP3100HV also uses Amanero and should it be removed from the list?

We're looking into it, we have a U-hear usb descriptor from it but it does appear to use Amanero, which is odd.
 

nuway

Member
Jun 26, 2019
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There is an Extreme owner with a pretty high end system, who told me that on quiet music passages streaming from Tidal he can hear high frequency noise. He also the original track, and that does not have this high frequency noise.

So it would seem that Tidal have transitioned from Lossy to Lossless to "Added"

A matter of personal listening taste if the "Added" is enjoyable or not.

Taiko is committed to deliver all source material, either stored or streaming, "as is"
Thank You for posting, I sometimes here that Hiz noise on certain tracks on Tidal, specially on well mastered Albums. Back to Roon and It disappeared. Of course with the SQ differences between TAS and Roon.
I may need some TV time from you guys re-installing TAS since there is no way I could make QOBUZ working back in TAS.
 

romaz

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Oct 7, 2015
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Would you suggest an Mscaler user also bypass the mscale’s usb?
Unfortunately, the USB input in Hugo M Scaler and Blu Mk 2 are also Amanero and so if you have an Extreme and wish to take advantage of the Taiko USB card, Amanero remains involved with these M Scaler devices.

Here's a speculative comment regarding this AudioWise USB to BNC bridge for Chord DAVE owners. I'm not convinced that bypassing Amanero on the DAVE has the same impact if you don't own an ultra low latency music server like the Extreme. For example, having owned the InnuOS Zenith SE Mk2 once upon a time, I would not consider that server to be ultra low latency. This applies to any other server that utilizes a low power CPU including an Aurender W20SE which I also had here. I thought my best DIY server effort was pretty low latency (as it outclassed both the InnuOS and the Aurender) until my Extreme arrived and the Extreme made that server sound slow and smeared and sleepy. So anything with higher latency than the Extreme that is introduced into the path after the Extreme will be a bottleneck to the Extreme and Amanero is clearly a bottleneck. But with other music servers, one may find that the Amanero in DAVE isn't really a bottleneck and so in these instances, the AudioWise bridge may not offer much. This is why I said YMMV.

For those with an Extreme and a Chord DAVE who decide to try the AudioWise bridge, here is another finding. Because Amanero results in such a bloated sound, many of us found using very small buffers (i.e. 64ms) with XD player necessary while every other Extreme owner who was not confined by Amanero was using 4096. In fact, because of Amanero, I believe many DAVE users (including myself) were finding HQP/NAA to sound better than XD player and so the Taiko team was kind enough to include a port to HQP with TAS. Having now bypassed Amanero on my DAVE, I now find my preferences more aligned with everyone else. To my ears, XD player at a buffer setting of around 4096 sounds best and I have finally been able to retire HQP.
 

gds7368

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Jan 9, 2015
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Can I get some advice?

I have an Extreme on order, and I’m currently all digital. Mostly listen to rock, alternative, mixed in with some electronic and classical. No jazz.

I currently have zero albums, but I’m thinking of adding a turntable. Assume money isn’t an issue.

I’m not exactly asking whether a turntable sounds “better” … as I understand many audiophiles would prefer the sound of analog.

What I want to know is … for those with vinyl and an Extreme, how much listening is on each format?
 

Rhapsody

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I have three TT's. My personal listening is 100% streaming with the Extreme.
 
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MarkusBarkus

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AudioWise USB to BNC bridge for Chord DAVE owners.
Roy, and fellow BNC Bridge adopters: is the use and benefit of the bridge device also predicated on feeding the Dave upsampled source material, e.g. PGGB files to get to the desired 705/768 threshold? I didn't see that explicitly called-out in the various threads, but you guys may take that as a given. Thanks...
 

oldmustang

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Dec 2, 2012
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Can I get some advice?

I have an Extreme on order, and I’m currently all digital. Mostly listen to rock, alternative, mixed in with some electronic and classical. No jazz.

I currently have zero albums, but I’m thinking of adding a turntable. Assume money isn’t an issue.

I’m not exactly asking whether a turntable sounds “better” … as I understand many audiophiles would prefer the sound of analog.

What I want to know is … for those with vinyl and an Extreme, how much listening is on each format?

Good question but hard to quantify here. My listening in either format ebbs and flows over time, depending on mood, the provenance of my "best" recordings of music I want to hear, and things like whether I'm evaluating changes to digital or analog front ends, etc. I'd say since my Extreme arrived early March 2020 that my digital listening has averaged around 60-70%, vinyl the rest. Prior to that it was more evenly split between the two.

Steve Z
 
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dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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I have a turntable, reel to reel and Extreme in my main room. My listening breakdown is 50 / 20 / 30 in that order. However, I have a lot of LPs and reels. If I had no analog material to start I am not sure if I would add a turntable at this point.
 
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romaz

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Oct 7, 2015
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Roy, and fellow BNC Bridge adopters: is the use and benefit of the bridge device also predicated on feeding the Dave upsampled source material, e.g. PGGB files to get to the desired 705/768 threshold? I didn't see that explicitly called-out in the various threads, but you guys may take that as a given. Thanks...

The bridge (or bypassing Amanero) allows the qualities of the Extreme and the USB card to be more realistically expressed. It's a more responsive, succinct, and less smeared sound regardless of whether you are streaming Redbook or an upsampled track. The pluck of a guitar or the snap of a drum, those transients are better expressed.
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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The considerations are not just about which format the music is in. Another key one is the mastering of the recording. My experience has shown that LP mastering is superior to digital mastering in more albums than vice versa.
 
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