Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Jeffy]

As Rhapsody says, anything anybody says about sonic improvements is pure speculation as we don‘t know how your current systems sounds. However I’m game for a little speculation, based on the logic that somehow underlies hi-fi.
Your current system is far from chopped liver. A Jcat card, Optima 3 LPS and MSB DAC are not going to generate bad sounds….far from it. BUT the rest of your system is going to hold those components back considerably, potentially massively. If you take a PC vs something like an Innuos server, the PC is designed for home computing, with everything that entails….printers, plotters, scanners, screens, keyboards, graphics, hosts of applications, huge amounts of I/O, networking etc etc. none of which is remotely optimized for audio. But what does optimized means? Well in a stream of consciousness it can mean:
minimising unnecessary CPU loading
minimizing EMI radiation
minimizing vibration and resonance
optimizing power supplies
optimizing operating systems for ’audio only’ operation
dropping unnecessary i/O operations
minimizing network traffic
moving network traffic from ‘pull‘ (anything for me?) to push (here’s something for you)
minimising CPU interrupts
optimizing clocks
optimizing EMI screening
selecting the best ’sounding’ processor
optimizing BIOS for audio
removing unnecessary components
suspending sensitive components
isolating sensitive components
heat management
optimizing RAM memory
optimizing mass storage
optimizing critical I/O ports
removing unneccessary LEDs
optimize the casework for better screening
optimizing cabling or removing it altogether
soldered joints instead of push-on fasteners
building superior I/O devices
writing superior music playing SW that leverages all the above improvements
Etc, etc.
If you did all the above (and more) to a PC and were really diligent about it , you’d end up with a dedicated server, so its not really hard to see why there’s a sonic difference. What is the difference? Well the first bit of logic is….better signal in, better signal out. Do all the above on a PC and imagine how much lower the noise and jitter could be at the data stream to the JCAT card. That card is going to punch out a far superior data stream. Now imagine that instead of going through a consumer grade router, that data stream goes straight to the Innuos. The Innuos input is going to be massively improved, so therefore is its output, so what’s arriving at the MSB DAC bears no relationship to the quality of what it previously received. The DAC will reward you with a far superior analog signal.
Differences? In a nutshell, you’re going to move from ‘playing data files in your room‘ to ‘music being played in a venue’. The difference will likely be transformative as you already have some great components and all you’re doing is removing all their limitIng factors like noise and jitter (timing jitter and phase noise) and optimizing all the processes required to create a more ‘perfect’ data stream. In greater detail you’ll probably hear a far more realistic portrayal of music playing in its original venue or in the acoustic created by the engineer (which is often no less thrilling). The music will be more vibrant, tonally more pure and transparent, have increased rhythmic drive and better timing, so you’ll have a far greater insight into the performers‘ musicianship. Transient attack and micro dynamics should markedly improve, going a long way further in convincing you that what you’re listening to is real. Your emotional response to the music should increase markedly and you’ll gain far greater insight into what the composer was trying to achieve. Oh and all the typical hi-fi stuff will also markedly improve, so both the music lover and audiophile are well served.
A server is essentially a very stripped down and optimized PC so spending say $2000 already sounds like a LOT for a complete non-audiophile computer-head. Spending whatever an Extreme costs must appear to be insanity, but if your goal is to enhance your life with music, the Extreme gives you rare access to levels of musical reward that was not available 5 years ago, except maybe for the most well heeled analog enthusiast prepared to spend a LOT more than an Extreme costs today on Vinyl or copies of master tapes.
Now one final word of warning. As far as the Taiko Extreme is concerned, all the above IS pure speculation, because its based on my experience fully optimizing the network around an Innuos Statement. Given that the Extreme is more than double the Statement’s price, my expectation is that the Extreme should significantly exceed the above.

This all makes sense, thank you. Do you think adding the Jcard to a server like the extreme is still effective?

 

[Blackmorec]

This all makes sense, thank you. Do you think adding the Jcard to a server like the extreme is still effective?

I’m afraid there I’m really the wrong person to ask. There are probably technical questions that I’m not even aware of. If Emile reads this, yo Emile…..could you please answer Jeffy’s question.…Thanks

 

[Taiko Audio]

This all makes sense, thank you. Do you think adding the Jcard to a server like the extreme is still effective?

No, that would be a downgrade. The Extreme USB card was designed to work optimally in the Extreme environment.

 

[heihei]

Is there any consensus on here about the best way to connect a Lampizator Pacific to the Extreme?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Is there any consensus on here about the best way to connect a Lampizator Pacific to the Extreme?

USB.

 

[nenon]

 

[2ndLiner]

Watching a couple of audio fanatics who get a kick out of each other indulge their passion was enjoyable. The part that kind of annoyed me is when Mikey was talking about the bugginess of TAS. I assume Jay knows that Emile and the Taiko Team did us a favor by not making us wait for what will undoubtedly be the awesome final product. And we got to throw in our two cents (some more like a quarter!) to provide Taiko with useful feedback. I felt Jay could have spoken to that more comprehensively. When I see what friends of mine who are into vinyl go through, TAS is a minor inconvenience. Mini-rant concluded!

 

[Emorante]

Hello everyone, after reading all the pages of this thread, I ordered the new extreme taiko with USB input.

I take this opportunity to introduce myself and ask Emile a final question.

My journey into liquid music, as it was called at the beginning, began with foobar2000 and before with Winamp, it has always fascinated me and above all I found it convenient for my "distracted" type of listening, I have cataloged all my over 13,000 cd and slowly passing from audio nirvana, jriver, roon, audiolinux, windows server with audiophile3.0, process lasso, ect etc. I arrived today at euphony and roon, with an ever crescendo of audio quality and emotion.

For the hardware part, starting from a laptop, then to the macmini with the various tricks, and various builds I have come to a current, yet another, Build fanless with optane and Jcat powered with LPS, gentho audio etc.etc. following the experiences of pioneers such as Nenon, Romanz, Austinpop just to name a few, whom I thank for their honest intellectual.

Of course, even on the network side I walked the same path as the participants of this forum, up to the sotm with external Triple Corona clock.

I enjoyed myself, so much without fainting, and with good satisfaction.

In the last few days I have updated my refence dac to femto 33, and from the advice of the kind Taiko seller for Italy, I have installed the proUSB in place of my renderer to prepare me to connect the extreme and wow how the sound, exciting.

I come now to the question for Emile, having to connect the Taiko to my SOTM I guess you don't provide SPF so which one should I get, in the meantime?

Greetings to all and congratulations for the serene atmosphere that is experienced in this Forum.
Toni

Translated with Google.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I come now to the question for Emile, having to connect the Taiko to my SOTM I guess you don't provide SPF so which one should I get, in the meantime?

Greetings to all and congratulations for the serene atmosphere that is experienced in this Forum.
Toni

Translated with Google.

Hi Toni,

Congratulations on your purchase! I have a few Finisar SFP modules left. If you can have Hari let me know which order is for you I can include a pair.

 

[Emorante]

ciao Tonino,

Congratulazioni per il tuo acquisto! Mi sono rimasti alcuni moduli Finisar SFP. Se puoi avere Hari, fammi sapere quale ordine è per te, posso includerne un paio.

Gazie

 

[Taiko Audio]

Watching a couple of audio fanatics who get a kick out of each other indulge their passion was enjoyable. The part that kind of annoyed me is when Mikey was talking about the bugginess of TAS. I assume Jay knows that Emile and the Taiko Team did us a favor by not making us wait for what will undoubtedly be the awesome final product. And we got to throw in our two cents (some more like a quarter!) to provide Taiko with useful feedback. I felt Jay could have spoken to that more comprehensively. When I see what friends of mine who are into vinyl go through, TAS is a minor inconvenience. Mini-rant concluded!

Thank you @2ndLiner , we're close to releasing XDMS now, I personally am still kind of shocked how much of a SQ improvement getting rid of the LMS interface brings to the party, as it is really only used to pass files to the bridge and player. XDMS can pause tracks, and it's fast

 

[ctydwn]

Now that is fantastic re: Emorante’s post and translation. congrats on the order! Obviously music transcends all boundaries for millennia. But been amazing to watch how the quest even on this thread includes folks from a few dozen countries all searching.
And now another XDMS update, where Emile is shocked and a wink. the best. very exciting, especially late here and the extreme still playing. a true privilege

 

[ShawnZH]

Did anyone compare the SGM extreme to a WADAX Server? It is not in the same price range while WADAX server seems to operate on an optimized NUC. I assume SGM Extreme would be better. I'm curious to have some idea how much better SGM extreme would be?

I'm now using a Wadax Server and considering to upgrade to a better Server. Frankly, I'm pretty happy with Wadax but for an audiophile, we're always looking for a "better" next gear.

I am mainly using Roon, and listening to Tidal and Qobuz much more than local files. I learnt from a user that SGM Extreme works better for local files then streaming. Is it true?

Thanks.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Did anyone compare the SGM extreme to a WADAX Server? It is not in the same price range while WADAX server seems to operate on an optimized NUC. I assume SGM Extreme would be better. I'm curious to have some idea how much better SGM extreme would be?

I'm now using a Wadax Server and considering to upgrade to a better Server. Frankly, I'm pretty happy with Wadax but for an audiophile, we're always looking for a "better" next gear.

I am mainly using Roon, and listening to Tidal and Qobuz much more than local files. I learnt from a user that SGM Extreme works better for local files then streaming. Is it true?

Thanks.

Hi @ShawnZH ,

I'm not aware of any direct comparisons between the Extreme and the Wadax Reference server. I do believe there have been comparisons made in the past between the Atlantis server and the Extreme but that was a long time ago and the outcome has not been shared afaik. Direct comparisons of this nature, at that level, with the results shared publicly are seldom done, if it all. If you own a Wadax Reference DAC, then the Wadax Reference server may have a benefit over others by being able to make use of their proprietary optical interface link which most likely is a direct I2S interface. The closest comparison to that would be an Extreme + MSB Select with the optical MSB Pro USB-ISL interface, but again, I doubt such a comparison will ever be made. I don't know where you are located but the only dealer I know who may be able to give you some insights in this is ultimate audio elite in Portugal. They carry both Wadax and the Extreme server. Though they tend to sell everything which arrives within a very short timespan and may never have had both in stock at the same time and therefor may have never done a direct A/B.

Just as an example here are a few videos taken at Ultimate Audio Elite with the Extreme - Wadax, Extreme - MSB and Extreme - Ideon Absolute, different speakers, amplifiers and room, and compressed by youtube so it does not tell you anything unfortunately.

 

[ShawnZH]

Hi @ShawnZH ,

I'm not aware of any direct comparisons between the Extreme and the Wadax Reference server. I do believe there have been comparisons made in the past between the Atlantis server and the Extreme but that was a long time ago and the outcome has not been shared afaik. Direct comparisons of this nature, at that level, with the results shared publicly are seldom done, if it all. If you own a Wadax Reference DAC, then the Wadax Reference server may have a benefit over others by being able to make use of their proprietary optical interface link which most likely is a direct I2S interface. The closest comparison to that would be an Extreme + MSB Select with the optical MSB Pro USB-ISL interface, but again, I doubt such a comparison will ever be made. I don't know where you are located but the only dealer I know who may be able to give you some insights in this is ultimate audio elite in Portugal. They carry both Wadax and the Extreme server. Though they tend to sell everything which arrives within a very short timespan and may never have had both in stock at the same time and therefor may have never done a direct A/B.

Thanks for the quick reply. Indeed, it is not likely that people had the chance to sit them shoulder to shoulder for a direct A/B.

I'm not using a Wadax Dac. Actually I am using the Wadax Atlantis Server as a pure Roon core, and a Bricasti M5 as a bridge connecting to my Metronome Kalista Dreamplay DAC via USB. I found through an M5 as a bridge, the SQ wins over a direct USB connection from the Atlantis Server. In fact this was where I started to consider an upgrade to a better one-piece solution.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks for the quick reply. Indeed, it is not likely that people had the chance to sit them shoulder to shoulder for a direct A/B.

I'm not using a Wadax Dac. Actually I am using the Wadax Atlantis Server as a pure Roon core, and a Bricasti M5 as a bridge connecting to my Metronome Kalista Dreamplay DAC via USB. I found through an M5 as a bridge, the SQ wins over a direct USB connection from the Atlantis Server. In fact this was where I started to consider an upgrade to a better one-piece solution.

I did just edit my post to include a few videos, on the first 2 it looks like they have an Atlantis Transport, not a Server. If that USB connection is a direct USB output from an Intel NUC (again I do not know for a fact), then the M5 bridge providing an increase in SQ is not very surprising. Then again we don't have any experience with the USB input to the Dreamplay DAC either, perhaps it simply performs better using AES/EBU. Sorry I can't be of more help in this case.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I learnt from a user that SGM Extreme works better for local files then streaming. Is it true?

I'm addressing this question in a separate post as there are some variables in play there. Our own software, TAS, addresses part of the difference in SQ between local and streamed files. Here in the Netherlands the performance is very close. It appears the differences are generally smaller in Europe then for example in the US. So this may be infrastructure related. We have a Fibre 1Gb internet uplink here for example on which we reach 90-95% of the maximum bandwidth with very low ping and jitter values. The difference to a 100Mbit uplink is noticeable but not mayor though. The ISP provided internet modem / router appears to play a role as well, we are currently working on addressing these differences to try and achieve global consistency. Do note that here in The Netherlands streamed file performance already outperformed local files stored on SATA SSD storage years ago, even before we had our own software elevating streamed file performance, we had to resort to using direct CPU connected PCIe SSD storage to elevate local file storage above streamed files again back when we designed the Extreme about 3.5 years ago.

 

[Stereophonic]

Hello everyone, after reading all the pages of this thread, I ordered the new extreme taiko with USB input.

Congratulations !!!
If you have needed 8547 posts to buy it, i doubt you won’t ever change your new Server because i doubt there will be another Server with so much posts...
You deserve a Taiko's trophy !!!
Just joking…
Enjoy !!!

 

[Christiaan Punter]

I too used to like owning all my music, now i reserve that [mostly] for vinyl. One great thing about streaming is I don’t have to own all the tracks of a particular release when I only care for one or two. Why buy the whole album just to listen to your favorite cut (when the rest are okay or just filler material)? I also find releases with a couple really well recorded, well produced tracks, the balance sound like they were recorded in a garage with a toy microphone.

Agreed! I only buy what I really like and Vinyl also forms a big chunk of my purchases. Discogs is really great for finding precisely the release that you want.

 

[rando]

Continue to be amazed at the high level of brand awareness and associations to this server. Seems every other day there are new Taiko affiliates popping up.



Speaking of affiliation.

Is there any publicly available information on XDMS [phrasing is tough here] gargle blasting files?