Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Macattack]

I don't disagree with you at all. I would like to know what I would gain in the sonics.

Jeffy, I like you, am using a souped up windows PC with HD Plex power and JCAt NetCard XE. While I haven’t had the Extreme in my room to compare, I have heard it at a dealers and compared it to a Lumin streamer.

I also heard the TAS software vs ROON comparison and have ZERO doubt the Extreme would sound significantly better than my existing PC streamer.

Everything about the SQ will be better.

There is only one drawback for me. $

 

[microstrip]

Yes, but what is “bit exact” worth nowadays? How much does it tell you if we’re assuming sound quality is what we’re after?

IMHO bit exact is the minimum we must aim. If the files we get at our DACs are not bit exact what is the point of discussing other effects in comparisons?

Is there any software that can take a digital signature or checksum of the files or capture them to assure us they are exactly the same of those we have in the physical media (CDs)? Can we be sure we are not comparing apples with oranges?

 

[oldmustang]

IMHO bit exact is the minimum we must aim. If the files we get at our DACs are not bit exact what is the point of discussing other effects in comparisons?

Is there any software that can take a digital signature or checksum of the files or capture them to assure us they are exactly the same of those we have in the physical media (CDs)? Can we be sure we are not comparing apples with oranges?

And yet what does bit perfect get us (as Emile asked)? If the version of a file I'm listening to isn't bit perfect but *is* the best sounding version a piece of music (to me) what does failing a "purity test" mean?

To me the bit perfect argument is akin to the DSD vs PCM, MQA vs. PCM high resolution, or even the vinyl vs digital wars that will never be resolved for some folks.

I say this with respect and with sincerity when I ask the question, what makes bit perfect files necessarily superior or desirable, and superior to what exactly?

Steve Z

 

[steve williams]

Taiko has said right from the inception of TAS that the company path is to produce the very best sound quality by being able to control the signal from the time it enters to the time it exits the Extreme

To date and IMHO every update done in this beta version has been better than its predecessor. I too seek the best sound quality and believe that not only will Emile provide even better in his coming updates but I also know that Emile won’t leave a stone unturned to get to that level of sound quality

 

[microstrip]

And yet what does bit perfect get us (as Emile asked)? If the version of a file I'm listening to isn't bit perfect but *is* the best sounding version a piece of music (to me) what does failing a "purity test" mean?

To me the bit perfect argument is akin to the DSD vs PCM, MQA vs. PCM high resolution, or even the vinyl vs digital wars that will never be resolved for some folks.

I say this with respect and with sincerity when I ask the question, what makes bit perfect files necessarily superior or desirable, and superior to what exactly?

Steve Z

Please read the whole thread, just not my post. We are also addressing comparisons between formats and trying to explain the reasons why, not just asking what is your preference.

Knowing about bit perfection of the source is fundamental is any comparison of formats. During more than a a decade people attributed the differences between CD players to the error correction abilities and reviews ranked tested wrongly, as they were not able to find anything else to do. We should aim at doing a better understanding nowadays.

IMHO bit perfection at some point is a minimum. I want the exact bits I pay for!

 

[microstrip]

Taiko has said right from the inception of TAS that the company path is to produce the very best sound quality by being able to control the signal from the time it enters to the time it exits the Extreme

To date and IMHO every update done in this beta version has been better than its predecessor. I too seek the best sound quality and believe that not only will Emile provide even better in his coming updates but I also know that Emile won’t leave a stone unturned to get to that level of sound quality

Steve,

I am not asking questions about the Taiko control of the signal, just asking about the bits they are being delivered by the music suppliers. In simple words, aren't you curious to know why you prefer Qobuz to Tidal?

As you I am eagerly expecting the new XDMS!

 

[oldmustang]

Please read the whole thread, just not my post. We are also addressing comparisons between formats and trying to explain the reasons why, not just asking what is your preference.

Knowing about bit perfection of the source is fundamental is any comparison of formats. During more than a a decade people attributed the differences between CD players to the error correction abilities and reviews ranked tested wrongly, as they were not able to find anything else to do. We should aim at doing a better understanding nowadays.

IMHO bit perfection at some point is a minimum. I want the exact bits I pay for!

Fair enough, if the purpose is to compare streaming vs local playback vs spinning discs then absolutely, knowing that the file(s) used for the comparison are identical is a necessary first condition. But they could be anything so long as they are identical. Bit perfection would be nice but I don't think that confers any special virtue to that format, regardless of what you paid for it!

It would be nice in the context of an even playing field if there is indeed some software that could analyze a file and produce a checksum to compare to another file's checksum. I know some CD ripping software can do this but I am unaware of any that can intercept a stream and provide the same measure of provenance.

If you do find such a beast and the process to do this, please let us know!

Steve Z

 

[ShawnZH]

The local dealer agrees to send me a demo of Taiko Extreme in the coming days. I‘d have the opportunity to sit Wadax Atlantis Server with Taiko Extreme, hopefully sooner.

I’ll share the comparison.

 

[oldmustang]

Steve,

I am not asking questions about the Taiko control of the signal, just asking about the bits they are being delivered by the music suppliers. In simple words, aren't you curious to know why you prefer Qobuz to Tidal?

As you I am eagerly expecting the new XDMS!

It just occurred to me -- a person could buy and download a file from Qobuz and compare it to the same resolution file streamed from Qobuz. That wouldn't address the problem of provenance with Tidal streaming vs. ripped files, but could be a start in the comparison of streaming vs local file playback on a level playing field.

I'll drop a line to Qobuz to ask the question if a file purchased and downloaded is identical to the same piece streamed. In the past they've been very prompt with their replies to my questions.

Steve Z

 

[7ryder]

It just occurred to me -- a person could buy and download a file from Qobuz and compare it to the same resolution file streamed from Qobuz. That wouldn't address the problem of provenance with Tidal streaming vs. ripped files, but could be a start in the comparison of streaming vs local file playback on a level playing field.

I'll drop a line to Qobuz to ask the question if a file purchased and downloaded is identical to the same piece streamed. In the past they've been very prompt with their replies to my questions.

Steve Z

The streamed Qobuz files vs downloaded Qobuz files don't sound any different from each other on my system.

 

[kswanson27]

The streamed Qobuz files vs downloaded Qobuz files don't sound any different from each other on my system.

Same here.

 

[steve williams]

Same here.

Like I said as well I would be hard pressed to pick the stored file vs the streamed file. I used to care about format,DSD, PCM etc but TBH TAS took a giant leap with their proprietary USB board.

 

[aLLeARS]

@MarkusBarkus
@ctydwn
@Steve Williams
@aLLeARS

Can you identify differences between Qobuz & Tidal and are you on the East or West side of the US?

This is interesting as the mayority of the reports of streaming being inferior actually come from the US. And often Tidal is being used. I should add that Tidal here most of the time (assuming non mqa files) sounds good aswell. Tidal a bit more incisive (but not due to glare), Qobuz smoother.

Northeast coast. I was streaming from Qobuz when I did that comparison. Although Tidal sounds good here as well.
I had a similar experience this morning when Hard Headed Woman from Cat Stevens Tea For The Tillerman came on. It was a 192/24 version. It sounded so good that I put on my CD rip to compare. The streamed 192/24 version blows away my locally stored CD rip WAV file.
I realize that this is not an apples to apples comparison. But it is good to know that streamed hi-res files can sound so good. Even better than locally stored CD rips.

 

[EuroDriver]

Northeast coast. I was streaming from Qobuz when I did that comparison. Although Tidal sounds good here as well.
I had a similar experience this morning when Hard Headed Woman from Cat Stevens Tea For The Tillerman came on. It was a 192/24 version. It sounded so good that I put on my CD rip to compare. The streamed 192/24 version blows away my locally stored CD rip WAV file.
I realize that this is not an apples to apples comparison. But it is good to know that streamed hi-res files can sound so good. Even better than locally stored CD rips.

What's interesting about the way TAS processes files before playing is that it helps Hi Res and DSD files even more than 16/44 files simply because there is more data to improve.

What I have never done is to compare Roon stored file playback to Roon Qobuz or Tidal playback of the same provenance track. If anyone wishes to compare, your observations will be warmly welcomed

 

[Mike Lavigne]

What's interesting about the way TAS processes files before playing is that it helps Hi Res and DSD files even more than 16/44 files simply because there is more data to improve.

What I have never done is to compare Roon stored file playback to Roon Qobuz or Tidal playback of the same provenance track. If anyone wishes to compare, your observations will be warmly welcomed

comparing the 'Roon' 192/24 Quboz "Hardheaded Woman" to the 'Roon' Extreme PCIe resident 192/24 file, the file is clearly, if slightly, better. slightly more vivid (lower noise floor) and a little more dynamic contrasts.....a little less processed. i'm in NW USA, broadband cable, reasonably sorted out network.

if i never heard the file, i would be thrilled with the 'Roon' Quboz version; and the TAS (Quboz) is even better, i know.

as far as the 192/24 file provenance compared to the Quboz; i've owned the file for 5 years. so hard to say exactly. but i'd say this difference is pretty consistently how this typically goes comparing same resolution PCM files with streaming. probably the best files to do this with would be Reference Recordings 176/24 as those are predictably the same for Quboz or a file you might own, and we know are native files. have done that and it did seem to be very consistent. just not this morning.

 

[Taiko Audio]

IMHO bit perfection at some point is a minimum. I want the exact bits I pay for!

There’s no differences in bits, it almost never happens that bits change from 1 to 0 or 0 to 1. If it does you have a hard error, you’d notice something like a click in the sound. The line of thought should be directed to the analogue voltage defining bits (above a certain level is high (1) below is low (0). Is that the single frequency DC voltage we need, or does it consist of a whole spectrum of frequencies with all kinds of values. And if so, how does that affect the electronic circuitry processing those bits.

 

[Kingrex]

There’s no differences in bits, it almost never happens that bits change from 1 to 0 or 0 to 1. If it does you have a hard error, you’d notice something like a click in the sound. The line of thought should be directed to the analogue voltage defining bits (above a certain level is high (1) below is low (0). Is that the single frequency DC voltage we need, or does it consist of a whole spectrum of frequencies with all kinds of values. And if so, how does that affect the electronic circuitry processing those bits.

This is what I was wondering about with files ripped from CD to hard drive using a cheap ripper, vs a purpose built drive. I have heard a difference. Yet both read as bit perfect. Yet is the bit exactly the same, or has thr rise time been altered enough timing errors or ability to reach full voltage altered.

I wonder if when you purchase a file and its transmitted from wherever over the internet to your computer, do the bits have slight amounts of irregularities imparted onto them. Still bit perfect. But "wholly " bit perfect?

 

[Muni]

Hi folks - I just want to share my room setup including the Quardraspire Rack which was recommended byctydwn here in this forum - thanks to you! - it works great for me and the Extreme which I got 4 weeks ago sounding great - burning in the new 1.5" Center stage footers under it will take more time ( 8 days now ) the sound changing almost every day...
Waiting patiently for another Daiza under the great APL MR SE DAC and of course the XDMS Software ....
The sound - before adding the CSM2 under the Extreme very dynamic, natural, detailed, holographic - very pleasing!!!
Thank you all for all of the useful suggestions here in this forum - very valuable - and thank you Steve, thank you Emile!!!

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thank you all for all of the useful suggestions here in this forum - very valuable - and thank you Steve, thank you Emile!!!

Hi @Muni ,

You are more then welcome. Nice to see the Zellaton Plural EVO out in the field! What is your experience with the Schnerzinger Protectors?

 

[cat6man]

It's coming on Christmas
They're cutting down trees
They're putting up reindeer
And singing songs of joy and peace
Oh, I wish I had a XDMS.............