Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Mike Lavigne]

Sonic differences for higher processing power systems can be found in:
-Increased soundstage size in both depth and width, extension beyond the boundaries set by the loudspeakers and room / development / envelopment / immersion.
-Overall higher detail levels, more resolving power, especially when there's a lot going on at the same time.
-Authority, bass depth and slam, frequency extreme extension.

It interestingly sounds very similar to moving up to a higher powered amplifier, or from stereo to mono blocks.

I'd say the difference is most pronounced with large scale complex orchestra. If you have a small room and mainly listen to small ensembles the difference is going to be less obvious.

i found this to be the case for sure, with the Extreme.......more = more.......and lack of any ceiling on the music......headroom....it just goes on and on.....which is all about what my system does.

 

[Blackmorec]

Just for general interest a display of Ethernet error correction, note these stages of error correction are not all executed on all network adapters / devices.

View attachment 59764

Wow, not sure exactly what I’m looking at there, with no labels on either axis. Looking at the amount of echo, near and far end crosstalk and inter-symbol interference, I would guess this to be a highly compromised network stream, pretty much unsuitable for audio? I would guess that a little network optimization with decent cabling could/should prevent a lot of that happening. If I interpret the chart correctly is it saying that there’s sub-optimal impedance matching, some real problems with crosstalk between the cable’s twisted pairs and possibly a lot of outside interference? A kind of worst case scenario?. It certainly talks to the need for an optimised network feed rather than relying solely on the CPU to sort out the mess., which if you think about it is a real waste of CPU resources, sorting out something that shouldn’t be anything like as bad in the first place.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thank you, wanted to appreciate the benefit in terms of SQ. I understand that there is a difference in price and quality, I will make the investment, I first wait for the delivery of the select dac with the renderer.

If I'm allowed to make a suggestion there I'd consider getting the MSB Pro USB module to go with that

i have the Extreme + Select II with both the Renderer v2 and the Pro USB modules. (1) i very slightly preferred the Renderer v2 initially when i got it over the conventional USB interface. it was almost too close to call and i could easily toggle back and forth. (2) trying the Pro USB interface with my Curious Cable USB there was a clear step up over the Renderer v2, more separation in the soundstage, less processed presentation, lower noise floor. (3) removing the Renderer v2 module from the Select II slightly lowered the noise floor (it's a CPU after all). (4) swapping the Curious USB for the Gobel USB was a significant upgrade overall to everything.

of course; this was in the context of my system; YMMV.........for now.

i still have the Renderer v2 module sitting here; so if the pendulum swings back technically for some odd reason making the Renderer a better way to go i'm ready. with digital things do evolve.

 

[nuway]

Can anyone recommend a good cleaning solution for optical fiber connectors?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Can anyone recommend a good cleaning solution for optical fiber connectors?

cable is relatively cheap, buy new fiber optic cable. or......i would think that 99% isopropyl alcohol would not harm anything.

i do use the little plastic white plugs and black rubber plugs when i unplug my fiber optic cable for more than briefly.

the time/effort/stress of cleaning might not be worth it. if it's been run somewhere where it's not reasonably replaced (or really long) then ignore my suggestion.

 

[nuway]

cable is relatively cheap, buy new fiber optic cable. or......i would think that 99% isopropyl alcohol would not harm anything.

i do use the little plastic white plugs and black rubber plugs when i unplug my fiber optic cable for more than briefly.

the time/effort/stress of cleaning might not be worth it. if it's been run somewhere where it's not reasonably replaced (or really long) then ignore my suggestion.

Thank You!

 

[nuway]

I was able to improve musicality on SOTM stacked switches using the Emile recommended
SFP1000ZXST tx/rx modules. Those modules work best among others I have tried on the SOTM switches. The addition of four 5 db fiber angled attenuators on both ends help to soften the black background added by the optical links.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B1KH6DX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Blackmorec]

Can anyone recommend a good cleaning solution for optical fiber connectors?

99% Isopropyl Alcohol 1% Deionized water....and you‘ll also need link free swabs or cloths for optical surfaces so your ‘cleaning’ doesn’t leave deposits or contamination.

 

[Blackmorec]

I was able to improve musicality on SOTM stacked switches using the Emile recommended
SFP1000ZXST tx/rx modules. Those modules work best among others I have tried on the SOTM switches. The addition of four 5 db fiber angled attenuators on both ends help to soften the black background added by the optical links.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B1KH6DX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Sounds interesting but one thing I don’t understand. A ’black’ background is simply a background devoid of noise. How do you ‘soften’ that? Is it not perhaps the ‘outline’ or contrast of the music against the ’silence’ that you’re softening? Lot of inverted commas there...just I can’t really see how you ‘soften’ silence. Does that mean that your system is too ‘quiet’ or is the optical maybe creating an uncomfortable level of contrast on the leading edges of notes?

 

[Sablon Audio]

Can anyone recommend a good cleaning solution for optical fiber connectors?

Hi Carlos, when I previously used Aural Symphonics IoGel on glass ST cables, they included some isopropyl wipes for cleaning. i imagine this type of product could work equally well on fibre cables.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Sounds interesting but one thing I don’t understand. A ’black’ background is simply a background devoid of noise. How do you ‘soften’ that? Is it not perhaps the ‘outline’ or contrast of the music against the ’silence’ that you’re softening? Lot of inverted commas there...just I can’t really see how you ‘soften’ silence. Does that mean that your system is too ‘quiet’ or is the optical maybe creating an uncomfortable level of contrast on the leading edges of notes?

Officially when using 80km range SFP modules you need to use attenuators on short lengths.

 

[nuway]

Sounds interesting but one thing I don’t understand. A ’black’ background is simply a background devoid of noise. How do you ‘soften’ that? Is it not perhaps the ‘outline’ or contrast of the music against the ’silence’ that you’re softening? Lot of inverted commas there...just I can’t really see how you ‘soften’ silence. Does that mean that your system is too ‘quiet’ or is the optical maybe creating an uncomfortable level of contrast on the leading edges of notes?

Your last sentence fits better. but all depends of your liking and components.

 

[nuway]

Hi Carlos, when I previously used Aural Symphonics IoGel on glass ST cables, they included some isopropyl wipes for cleaning. i imagine this type of product could work equally well on fibre cables.

Hi Mark. Thank You. I will try some.

 

[Blackmorec]

Officially when using 80km range SFP modules you need to use attenuators on short lengths.

Aha thanks. as you can see I’ve never set-up FO. So the 5dB is equivalent to losses they would expect when the light transverses 80km of cable, so when the distance is much shorter the signal needs to be attenuated. Can you get FO for shorter distances or maybe the 80km sounds the best? Did you use attenuation when you tested it. I assume so. I guess the attenuation still happens in the light domain so it should be almost completely transparent (s’cuse the pun) despite how incongruous the attenuators look in a high-high-end setting.
Mind you, if a high-end company built some of those I wonder what they’d cost? Ha ha.

 

[Blackmorec]

Your last sentence fits better. but all depends of your liking and components.

I would understand from your text that the effect of too black blackness goes away with -5dB attenuation? I’m just wondering if its a timing issue in that music produced by light is going to be very fast...and is therefore maybe a touch too dynamic and while completely accurate its a little more than we’re used to, given the prevalence of copper in a lot of the sounds we hear.
A new level of silence combined with light transmitted dynamics.
I get a similar effect when a track that is playing fast and loud suddenly stops and in that moment the blackness feels like a black hole sucking your mind into it.

 

[Alinous]

i have the Extreme + Select II with both the Renderer v2 and the Pro USB modules. (1) i very slightly preferred the Renderer v2 initially when i got it over the conventional USB interface. it was almost too close to call and i could easily toggle back and forth. (2) trying the Pro USB interface with my Curious Cable USB there was a clear step up over the Renderer v2, more separation in the soundstage, less processed presentation, lower noise floor. (3) removing the Renderer v2 module from the Select II slightly lowered the noise floor (it's a CPU after all). (4) swapping the Curious USB for the Gobel USB was a significant upgrade overall to everything.

of course; this was in the context of my system; YMMV.........for now.

i still have the Renderer v2 module sitting here; so if the pendulum swings back technically for some odd reason making the Renderer a better way to go i'm ready. with digital things do evolve.

On my SOTM USB output is significantly less powerful, the USB cable Gobel is also less efficient than the Ethernet cable Gobel.
I did a lot of testing and with the LPS 1.2 on my router I was able to get a better SQ.
I'm waiting for April the Etherregen, I would ask the Pro USB for a VS.

Thanks for your feedback

 

[Mike Lavigne]

On my SOTM USB output is significantly less powerful, the USB cable Gobel is also less efficient than the Ethernet cable Gobel.
I did a lot of testing and with the LPS 1.2 on my router I was able to get a better SQ.
I'm waiting for April the Etherregen, I would ask the Pro USB for a VS.

Thanks for your feedback

i don't really understand the term 'less efficient' referring to the Gobel USB relative to the Gobel Ethernet. is that a comment on the music performance or some technical measurement?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Can you get FO for shorter distances or maybe the 80km sounds the best? Did you use attenuation when you tested it.

Yes you can. This 80km model is indeed the best “sounding“ one of all those I compared. I did not try using attenuation. So thank you for the tip Carlos!

 

[Alinous]

i don't really understand the term 'less efficient' referring to the Gobel USB relative to the Gobel Ethernet. is that a comment on the music performance or some technical measurement?

Sorry for my english from Google translate, France.
I may have bad words, it's not a technical measure.
On the old MSB I had, the USB with a Gobel cable there was significantly less benefit from SQ, than the Gobel ethernet cable on the SOTM.

 

[CKKeung]

i have the Extreme + Select II with both the Renderer v2 and the Pro USB modules. (1) i very slightly preferred the Renderer v2 initially when i got it over the conventional USB interface. it was almost too close to call and i could easily toggle back and forth. (2) trying the Pro USB interface with my Curious Cable USB there was a clear step up over the Renderer v2, more separation in the soundstage, less processed presentation, lower noise floor. (3) removing the Renderer v2 module from the Select II slightly lowered the noise floor (it's a CPU after all). (4) swapping the Curious USB for the Gobel USB was a significant upgrade overall to everything.

of course; this was in the context of my system; YMMV.........for now.

i still have the Renderer v2 module sitting here; so if the pendulum swings back technically for some odd reason making the Renderer a better way to go i'm ready. with digital things do evolve.

Hello Mike,
I am doing the same : have removed the Renderer module from my Select DAC, as I am listening mostly to Select Transport lately.

BTW I never connect my Select Transport to network or video display. That definitely worsens the sound.