Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Esotar]

Esotar, Holo Spring left you cold?

I invested Korean audiophiles' feedback about Spring Lv. 3 KTE.

The result is bad.

Now, Terminator is very popular in Korea. Venus too.

The important thing is Denafrips has more accommodative mind than Holo Audio.

In Korea, no Spring users.

So I choose Denafrips.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I invested Korean audiophiles' feedback about Spring Lv. 3 KTE.

The result is bad.

Now, Terminator is very popular in Korea. Venus too.

The important thing is Denafrips has more accommodative mind than Holo Audio.

In Korea, no Spring users.

So I choose Denafrips.

More "accommodative" mind? I'm not understanding.

 

[Esotar]

More "accommodative" mind? I'm not understanding.

Sorry, I can't tell you in detail.

I contacted two brands two years ago.

I think Denafrips has possibility to grow major DAC brand.

 

[matthias]

I listened to a combo of Jays Audio CD transport and Terminator at a dealer in Germany and was underwhelmed.

Matt

 

[spiritofmusic]

Also have a contact here, Terminator did not work for him. AlM rejected it in favour of keeping his Yggdrasil 2. Terminator reviews are a real mixed bag. Many enthusiastic but w vital caveats.

 

[Al M.]

@Al M. owns a Schiit Yggdrasil and he likes it. There is a post where he preferred it to the Vivaldi stack.

Matt

Vivaldi DAC plus Upsampler. The entire stack with Vivaldi Clock seems to be an entirely different beast altogether:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/state-of-the-art-digital.29583/page-8#post-616599

But in any case, yes, the Yggdrasil is an astounding performer on an absolute level, nothing to sneer at, regardless of its low price. Robert Harley in his TAS review calls it one of the greatest bargains in the history of High End audio. He is right.

 

[onlychild]

I just received this very nice feedback from a customer I'd like to share in a Christmas spirit:


Dear Emile,

I wanted to give you a little gift for Christmas and so I took a very high resolution photograph 55mp and spent some time in Lightroom. Since the Extreme came into my life I have started looking forward everyday to listening to music again.

I am very grateful to you for this gift and want to express my thanks.

I have worked on my system and managed to improve the sound considerably over the past 10 days. I would say it is a 90% improvement from where I was two weeks ago. I have learned a lot during this process. The exciting part is that there is more to come.

One of my closest friends, who has a deeply impressive system came over today, after listening for a while he turned around and said to me this sound is so good it makes me want to sell my speakers and focus on Headphone listening. Now that is a change normally its the other way around!

From my family to yours we wish you all very happy Christmas and I for one look forward in anticipation of what the next year will hold.

If you would like the RAW version of this file please let me know and I can put it on Dropbox for you.

Warmest regards,

S

View attachment 60124

Emile,

As someone who is strictly a headphone user and is looking to upgrade his Innuos Statement to an Extreme soon, I am very curious about this users gear, like DAC, amp, and headphones.

Can you please share this info if you know.

Thank you

 

[kswanson27]

I think I know the answer but has anyone tried the Berkeley ref 3 with the Extreme?

 

[wil]

Steve, I've had regular exposure to the evolving system of Blue58, from his Audio Aero cdp, to SGM/T&A Dac8 (first using dac internal vol cntrl, then w Java Triple Shot optologic pre), to SGM/Aqua Formula dac, to current SGM/Aqua Formula XHD, w various subsequent upgrades/system changes to server and dac.

I remain hugely impressed by his sound, and I know SGM is a critical part of this. And I can well imagine how Extreme might sound there. Certainly trounces the poor servers I've heard w their almost 1980s cdp levels of harshness.

However, even with a hugely impressive server setup, there is so much variation on provenance, and I do feel his SGM based system lapses into harshness on a fair amount of material that I know is more sympathetically dealt with on vinyl, and even cd.

This feels more like a provenance issue ie Tidal, than it does the SGM. And tbh, it's not an issue on stuff that is
1- recorded more recently ie digital DDD mastered
2- higher quality sonics to start
3- has not gone thru multiple remastered versions where the current version Tidal uses is likely worse than the one used in the 80s or 90s.

Guys, i am NOT looking to diss Extreme. I totally respect SGM's lead, and know that Extreme rocks. It's more that it "looks" like it particularly excels in the use Mike puts it to, hi rez, modern classical and jazz recordings, sonically pure DDD modern stuff.

If I really wanted an evening of Atlantic/Impulse recordings era John Coltrane, followed by Cream and then 70s Miles Davis, would I truly get as immersed off Extreme, than as a session listening to Extreme focusing on hi rez modern classical, jazz and eg DDD Nils Frahm or London Grammar?

As an Extreme user, I wouldn't say it abrogates the importance of "provenance"-- that is, the quality of recording, mastering, re-masters and other shenanigans these files go through in the streaming world. My feeling has always been and continues to be, that the recording/mastering quality far outweighs any influence of audio technology (with the exception of speakers and room I suppose).

That being said, I do think it lifts all boats in the digital music sea to a higher level. So far I'm happy streaming everything from Qobuz. I've only tried one download so far and in that case I prefer the streamed version-- go figure...

 

[Sablon Audio]

Actually that w

I think I know the answer but has anyone tried the Berkeley ref 3 with the Extreme?

Ken, I have a customer in Dallas who uses Extreme with Berkeley Ref 3 via their Alpha usb converter. i’m sure Peter would be happy to speak with you directly if you so wish.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile,

As someone who is strictly a headphone user and is looking to upgrade his Innuos Statement to an Extreme soon, I am very curious about this users gear, like DAC, amp, and headphones.

Can you please share this info if you know.

Thank you

MSB Select 2, MSB Select headphone amplifier, 14 pairs of HP’s, Abyss TC, Audeze 4z, HiFiMan Susvara etc etc (copy / paste from e-mail).

 

[spiritofmusic]

As an Extreme user, I wouldn't say it abrogates the importance of "provenance"-- that is, the quality of recording, mastering, re-masters and other shenanigans these files go through in the streaming world. My feeling has always been and continues to be, that the recording/mastering quality far outweighs any influence of audio technology (with the exception of speakers and room I suppose).

That being said, I do think it lifts all boats in the digital music sea to a higher level. So far I'm happy streaming everything from Qobuz. I've only tried one download so far and in that case I prefer the streamed version-- go figure...

Thanks wil. Your reply to my provenance enquiry is pretty much the only one addressing my question.

Now if you're saying that Extreme is so potent as a transport that it levels the playing field on different masters of the same album, and levels it UP, that can only be a good thing.

A major case in point re my major reservation on streaming is the recent King Crimson catalogue that Robert Fripp has finally put on Tidal. I've heard all the lps, cds of various remasters, and for the first time at Blue58 heard the album Discipline off Tidal thru his SGM/Aqua/AG Duos horns. And I found it an oddly jarring experience, w mastering issues very much in evidence. It was doubly irritating because Barry's system is so highly resolving and dynamic.

So, I'm finding Tidal a mixed bag. On material that has always been up and down on pure audio terms, provenance of masters and vinyl v cd v streaming really provides massive contrasts. And Tidal via high quality server SGM feels more challenging than the same albums played on vinyl or even cd. Yet play albums on Tidal thru SGM w much more consistent audio quality, DDD master provenance, eg Nils Frahm or London Grammar, and the true delight of superbly reproduced streamed music is totally engrossing.

Hey, I know I'm sounding like a scratched record here. I am way closer to being fully signed up to the concept than I sound. I'm just highlighting the single most critical issue that still presents a barrier to me fully adopting. The recent King Crimson experience on SGM took me right back to my early 80s anti digital sentiment.

 

[matthias]

Vivaldi DAC plus Upsampler. The entire stack with Vivaldi Clock seems to be an entirely different beast altogether:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/state-of-the-art-digital.29583/page-8#post-616599

But in any case, yes, the Yggdrasil is an astounding performer on an absolute level, nothing to sneer at, regardless of its low price. Robert Harley in his TAS review calls it one of the greatest bargains in the history of High End audio. He is right.

Thanks for clarification. Anyway, this is quite an achievement.

The review by Robert Harley is superb.

My gut feeling is that the upcoming Yggdrasil with the Unison USB board will be an excellent match with the Extreme.

Matt

 

[isquirrel]

in my system I continue to marvel at the virtues of the Extreme and how good it sounds in my system. I have zero need to add switches, optical fiber, gigafoil or other stipulated necessary tweaks as I am so drawn in by the sound as it is now. So much so that vinyl has taken a back seat in my system due to the ease of use of the Extreme as well as its excellent sound quality.

And yes Mike, like you I believe the Extreme to be a break out product

I totally agree with this statement, I have upgraded from a W20 to the Extreme and since then have put. a lot of effort into the stand/base (solid - draining of chassis energy works best in my system). The other "upgrade" has been replacing the factory Extreme fuse with the new Synergistic Research Orange 2A Slow blow small 5 x 20 mm fuse.

I put this fuse as an upgrade to the already upgraded Sync Research Black fuse so I expected a small improvement, but whoa it was a huge improvement. I have ordered Orange Syn Rsearch fuses for the rest of my system and I am upgrading my stand (HRS SXR) to the latest HRS VXR stand. This will improve my sound greatly.

 

[isquirrel]

Mike, it's not so clear for me. And others that will only really listen to 16/44 material, possibly occasional 24/96. For me, the provenance of pressings maybe matters more than the open ended ability of Extreme to provide stuff recorded hi rez.

So, if I want to locate Who "Tommy", which has gone thru any number of incarnations on digital, the most recent ones being less listenable than the original cd version (not discussing my Jap and original Track Records vinyl pressings), it's the cd's that matters.

Hi Rez, and audiophile pressings of a vast amount of classical, yes I can see Extreme being the bees' knees.

16/44 classic rock, and pre-digital jazz and classical, pressings provenance surely matters more than Extreme's uber resolution of CURRENT pressings.

Happy to be proved wrong on this. My go-to examples being re-masters of classic prog on Tidal. Original masters don't exist on Tidal, or provenance is ambiguous.

For me, this is maybe the main reason to maintain a 3-way split in my library. My classic material on lp, current non-lp/retrospective boxsets material on cd, stuff unavailable on disc/hardcore Tidal finds/random punts/broadening of classical music education on streaming.

Even if Extreme knocked my knees out, would it appeal to a consumer like me who is 95% 16/44, genre and provenance specific?

Simply put, but yes the Extreme will dramatically improve your sound whatever the source material is. I upgraded from an Aurender W20 and really didn't want the Extreme to sound better as I had it on loan however it was so good that I could not let it go and found that I went from listening to music once or twice a month to everyday and really looking forward to it.

Additionally having Roon and being able to explore both Qobuz's & Tidal libraries has been a revelation. I am constantly finding new music that I add to my library. I am very grateful to Emile for having laboured to bring us a machine capable of doing this.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, navigating my way thru this, Extreme is the equivalent of a vastly better cd transport (or tt/arm) PLUS better sounding library in and of itself?

A little like 15ips tape dubs of vinyl apparently sounding better than the original vinyl (according to some), digital thru the Extreme sounds way better than cd played thru a transport to the point of the source material appearing better?

Wow! If true, that is some amazing audio alchemy going on.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Thanks for clarification. Anyway, this is quite an achievement.

The review by Robert Harley is superb.

My gut feeling is that the upcoming Yggdrasil with the Unison USB board will be an excellent match with the Extreme.

Matt

Matthias, a £2.5k dac will surely make the financial pill of Extreme easier to swallow. Life being what it is, there is the possibility or likely probability that Extreme could shred the Yggy. If it doesnt, and Yggy a good holistic match, does that say more about how great Extreme is...or Yggy is?

The analogy in the 80s being Linn devotees who couldn't stretch to the priciest Linn products all in one go, were encouraged to go for the priciest Sondek LP12 tt, and install their cheapest cart. This gave a big glimpse into the full promise of Linn heaven.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Marc,

There is no magic trick to fix bad source material. “Remastered” is often bad news for audiophiles. It does not matter if you play one if these horrible remasters on CD or Server, both will sound bad. If you want to compare a well mastered CD to a bad mastered digital file, the CD will probably sound better.

As Will correctly pointed out earlier in the thread, the source file/medium quality dominates the result.

If you have well mastered CDs you can simply rip those to files. Or look online, and you may find even better quality downloads.

 

[matthias]

Matthias, a £2.5k dac will surely make the financial pill of Extreme easier to swallow. Life being what it is, there is the possibility or likely probability that Extreme could shred the Yggy. If it doesnt, and Yggy a good holistic match, does that say more about how great Extreme is...or Yggy is?

The analogy in the 80s being Linn devotees who couldn't stretch to the priciest Linn products all in one go, were encouraged to go for the priciest Sondek LP12 tt, and install their cheapest cart. This gave a big glimpse into the full promise of Linn heaven.

Marc,

I see no reason why the Extreme could shred the Yggy, it delivers simply a higher quality input for the Yggy.

I remember the days when Linn came up with their TOTL Ekos tonearm. They demoed it with their least expensive MM cartridge vs the Ittok tonearm and TOTL Troika MC cartridge, both with the same LP12.

The LP12 with Ekos always outperformed the other one.

Similar, IMO the Extreme with something like Yggy will outperform an inferior server with the best DAC.

Source First rules.......

Matt

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure Emile. It's just that the buzz on Extreme is so strong, and a statement that Mike made (which I may have read into more than I should) SEEMED to suggest that Extreme transcended the provenance issue.

A little like the phenomenon of 15ips tape dubs beating the original source material.

But I fully concur that Extreme may be such a step up in the world of transports, that it, in conjunction w Usb cbl of sufficient quality, it is in it's own category, sidelining provenance issues way more than other servers.

Ironically, my biggest misgiving about music, ahem, served thru servers, may be the deciding reason I go for Extreme.