Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[oldmustang]

I experienced the same stalled playback issues over the last few weeks in Roon. Same problem, same fix mentioned above. Didn’t realize it was widespread. I’ve been using Roon for 3.5 years. Never had this sync issue before. Lately I’m really getting tired of the Roon sound signature - rounded, smeared, soft. Reverting to TAS really exposes Roon’s shortcomings. Can’t wait for XDMS. Requested it 6 weeks ago. I’m ready to get rid of Roon Ready.

To be fair to Roon, within hours of rolling out their latest build they had identified the problem and had posted a notice on their website to make sure that all platforms were updated to the latest (same) version. It's always good practice with Roon and many other software upgrades to:

1. Turn automatic software upgrades off if possible on each platform.

2. Wait a couple of days for issues and hopefully fixes to emerge before jumping in.

3. Read the release notes prior to installing.

Steve Z

 

[Steve Williams]

Or 4. Stop using Roon

just kiddng Steve

 

[John T]

To be fair to Roon, within hours of rolling out their latest build they had identified the problem and had posted a notice on their website to make sure that all platforms were updated to the latest (same) version. It's always good practice with Roon and many other software upgrades to:

1. Turn automatic software upgrades off if possible on each platform.

2. Wait a couple of days for issues and hopefully fixes to emerge before jumping in.

3. Read the release notes prior to installing.

Steve Z

When I turn automatic software up grades off I have issues with "Broken Roon Update". That's what Edward called it. Its happened twice now. I "think" that what caused the "Broken Roon Update"? What happens Roon cannot upgrade and the problem occurs...Before I had it set to ask before updating...

 

[marty]

Sorry its Roon, and as indicated I think it was different versions related, so far so good!!

Not sure if this is relevant to your observations but i had a similar problem that took me a while to figure out the cause. I use Roon. In my main system, its Extreme to an iPad controller. But in the study, I use a work computer to play Roon remotely (via the Roon mucleaus in the Extreme) using my desk speakers. A few weeks ago, Roon in my main system went bizerko and stopped periodically. (Quobuz, Tidal or files). Then I noticed that Roon in my study didn;t play at all. Tried to hunt his down on the Roon website and learned that there was a major requirement change for Roon 2.0 which required Mac computers to now use a OS that was 15.0 or higher. My study computer is older using OS 14.1. Very frustrating to learn my study computer can't use Roon any longer, but that's no big deal. However, I wondered if the new OS requirements for Macs using Roon, was screwing up my main Roon use in the listening room. So I deleted the Roon program on my study computer and viola, all works perfectly again on Roon in the music room with the iPad.

I have no idea if this is the source of your difficulty, Just an FYi for other Roon users that might be experiencing similar stoppages if Roon 2.0 is running anywhere on older Macs .

 

[John T]

Not sure if this is relevant to your observations but i had a similar problem that took me a while to figure out the cause. I use Roon. In my main system, its Extreme to an iPad controller. But in the study, I use a work computer to play Roon remotely (via the Roon mucleaus in the Extreme) using my desk speakers. A few weeks ago, Roon in my main system went bizerko and stopped periodically. (Quobuz, Tidal or files). Then I noticed that Roon in my study didn;t play at all. Tried to hunt his down on the Roon website and learned that there was a major requirement change for Roon 2.0 which required Mac computers to now use a OS that was 15.0 or higher. My study computer is older using OS 14.1. Very frustrating to learn my study computer can't use Roon any longer, but that's no big deal. However, I wondered if the new OS requirements for Macs using roon, was screwing up my main Roon use in the listening room. So I deleted the Roon program on my study computer and viola, all works perfectly again on Roon in the music room with the iPad.

I have no idea if this is the source of your difficulty, Just an FYi for other Roon users that might be experiencing similar stoppages if Roon 2.0 is running anywhere on older Macs .

Post 15221 by Steve Z seems to explain Roon has acknowledged an issue. Not sure how it translates to your older computer not being able to play Roon anymore. For my issue it was conflicting versions on ipad/computer...

 

[oldmustang]

Not sure if this is relevant to your observations but i had a similar problem that took me a while to figure out the cause. I use Roon. In my main system, its Extreme to an iPad controller. But in the study, I use a work computer to play Roon remotely (via the Roon mucleaus in the Extreme) using my desk speakers. A few weeks ago, Roon in my main system went bizerko and stopped periodically. (Quobuz, Tidal or files). Then I noticed that Roon in my study didn;t play at all. Tried to hunt his down on the Roon website and learned that there was a major requirement change for Roon 2.0 which required Mac computers to now use a OS that was 15.0 or higher. My study computer is older using OS 14.1. Very frustrating to learn my study computer can't use Roon any longer, but that's no big deal. However, I wondered if the new OS requirements for Macs using Roon, was screwing up my main Roon use in the listening room. So I deleted the Roon program on my study computer and viola, all works perfectly again on Roon in the music room with the iPad.

I have no idea if this is the source of your difficulty, Just an FYi for other Roon users that might be experiencing similar stoppages if Roon 2.0 is running anywhere on older Macs .

Hi Marty -- current macOS is Ventura, which is currently 13.2.1 and I can successfully run Roon 2.0 on my older laptop running Monterey macOS (v12.x.xx). Perhaps you are referring to iOS? That currently is 16.3.1

I've inserted the current Room recommendations for macOS and iOS from their website:

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/faq-what-are-the-minimum-requirements#Recommended_Core_Hardware

Steve Z

 

[marty]

Thanks Steve. My office Mac runs Monterey OS 12.6.3 so it should work. I will re-load Roon on the office computer. Perhaps it was another glitch that coincidentally disappeared about the same time I deleted Roon from my office computer?

 

[Backo NYC/SF]

Check to see if the versions on the Extreme/ipad/computer are the same. Go into settings, "about" and you can see the versions that are installed and if upgrades are available...You should see Roon version 2.0 and Build 1223, 1223 Windows, ios you should see 1219...

Thanks John,
I have been having the pause/restart play issue with Roon. Ed at Taiko (AKA “the country doctor”) got me up and going by bypassing the unmanaged switches I was using and running an RJ45 direct to the Extreme but I just had the problem return as I was reading this thread. Checked and found that my iPad and Extreme had the current builds but my iPhone did not (Build 1211). Updated and we shall see what we can see.

 

[John T]

Thanks John,
I have been having the pause/restart play issue with Roon. Ed at Taiko (AKA “the country doctor”) got me up and going by bypassing the unmanaged switches I was using and running an RJ45 direct to the Extreme but I just had the problem return as I was reading this thread. Checked and found that my iPad and Extreme had the current builds but my iPhone did not (Build 1211). Updated and we shall see what we can see.

Hi Backo, its seems as though all the proper builds have to be in order on all devices, you should be fine now...BTW I like the country doctor reference!!

 

[cat6man]

The Taiko Extreme Network Card script as well as two detailed Instruction Guides (one for Windows, one for OSX) have been uploaded to the Taiko site.

Scroll to the bottom of this page: https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/product/taiko-audio-extreme-network-card/

I will also attach the Guides here but please note that the script can only be downloaded from the Taiko site.

Note: these docs were created in a hurry to be online prior to the deliveries. As a result, they may not yet be perfect but I will further refine them as I go along. Nevertheless, they should convey all the required info.

After we install the new network card, replacing the old optical network card, is the old Ethernet card connection still active so we can do A/B comparisons?

 

[oldmustang]

I would think that as long as the old network interface card (NIC) is still plugged in and energized it would just be a matter of remembering which IP address you are using to allow XDMS to connect to the Extreme.

Now, if the script for the new card changes the Extreme OS parameters to something sound-quality specific to the new NIC you might be comparing apples to kumquats. . .

PS: After taking a look at the script for the new card in the installation instructions Christiaan posted it looks like every script instruction is specific for ethernet 2 (the new card). So nothing in the script that will break the old card.

Steve Z

 

[jelt2359]

Installed, up and running!

 

[theaudiogeek]

View attachment 105652

Installed, up and running!

Do you hear any difference in sound quality?

 

[jelt2359]

The sound is instantly more organic, sounds more natural, and yet retains the edge acuity. It just sounds much more organic doing it. Separation and sense of holography has increased a lot, and microdetail just flows. It sounds incredibly effortless. The midrange also now sounds beautifully expressive.

This is not one of those unnatural 'popping of details' type of change- everything sounds very natural, and the music ebbs and flows in a very coherent and balanced way. Then you listen closer and you realise that everything also sounds more detailed and easier to make out (aka clearer, but in the way where it feels you removed a window and saw the real thing). As different singers in a band sing, for example, you can more clearly hear their voice entering the sound stage from different places. The music is layered front to back, north to south, and east to west, beautifully.

As I listen to mainly pop music in redbook, one thing I look for is whether refinement increases- otherwise, my music tends to sound very harsh as it clips. This switch manages to make the music instantly both more dynamic and detailed, while still increasing refinement and not bringing it over the edge. Previously my Melco switches helped tame the harshness, but seemed to subtract some detail, which led me to try and add more and more transparency to counter it. I eventually sold both switches when the OS upgrade came along. This switch is definitely one step above and better.

No-brainer upgrade imo.

 

[Taiko Audio]

The sound is instantly more organic, sounds more natural, and yet retains the edge acuity. It just sounds much more organic doing it. Separation and sense of holography has increased a lot, and microdetail just flows. It sounds incredibly effortless. The midrange also now sounds beautifully expressive.

This is not one of those unnatural 'popping of details' type of change- everything sounds very natural, and the music ebbs and flows in a very coherent and balanced way. Then you listen closer and you realise that everything also sounds more detailed and easier to make out (aka clearer, but in the way where it feels you removed a window and saw the real thing). As different singers in a band sing, for example, you can more clearly hear their voice entering the sound stage from different places. The music is layered front to back, north to south, and east to west, beautifully.

No-brainer upgrade imo.

Congratulations on the premiere! You can expect the greatest burn-in improvements to happen in the first 5 days.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I would think that as long as the old network interface card (NIC) is still plugged in and energized it would just be a matter of remembering which IP address you are using to allow XDMS to connect to the Extreme.

Now, if the script for the new card changes the Extreme OS parameters to something sound-quality specific to the new NIC you might be comparing apples to kumquats. . .

PS: After taking a look at the script for the new card in the installation instructions Christiaan posted it looks like every script instruction is specific for ethernet 2 (the new card). So nothing in the script that will break the old card.

Steve Z

Indeed no worries about the script, it doesn’t “break” the existing ports. The network card will even work without running it, the script only applies a few more optimal settings.

 

[jelt2359]

One interesting thing I found after running the script- XDMS seems to run instantly upon startup now. Not sure if this was intended or I’m imagining things…

 

[MOTU]

One interesting thing I found after running the script- XDMS seems to run instantly upon startup now. Not sure if this was intended or I’m imagining things…

Have you compared XDMS to Roon yet? Is the gap smaller with the switch?

 

[Christiaan Punter]

@Christiaan Punter - Sorry if this question has been answered already. Will the XDMS backend be re-architected to take advantage of the switch and the network card ?

No re-engineering will be required. It works with the combo "right out of the gate".

 

[Christiaan Punter]

A little video of the physical installation of the card would be welcome. It does not seem complicated, but the extra information does not get in the way.

Agreed, a simple instruction video installing the network card into SLOT 2. It does appear quite simple but may save some angst for some...

There was a huge amount of work to be done to enable timely shipping and with much of the staff now on holiday, an instruction video may not materialize soon. Although... I heard through the grapevine that a combo may or may not be headed my way. This is TBC. If so, I will see if I can whip up an instruction vid.