Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[CKKeung]

@CKKeung, I’m wondering if the taiko router will make dual switches redundant, or possibly the BPS for the switch/router.

I hope so too.
However the projected price of the Extreme Router is ...

Also, integrating the Extreme Router with the local home network & network vendors may not be as straightforward as the Extreme Switch.

A further point to consider is that the Extreme Router doesn't have wifi function.
Additional access-point devices for wifi and/or an usual router in the house are needed.

 

[Tuckia]

I never tell her what I buy for my media room. If she knew what it cost I’m not sure we would still be married!

Recently my wife and I were sitting quietly in the living room, each of us surfing the web like usual. From nowhere she asks me who Ron Resnick is. Be careful. It could happen to you too.

Things haven’t been the same since.

 

[Zeotrope]

Grounding things Taiko:

would you recommend active units like Telos 5.1 or rather passive units like Shunyata?
SGS and CAD ?
Your recommendations?

I use Shunyata Altaira with fantastic results. I have not tried other solutions; but I recall Emile saying they were not worth it.

 

[Zeotrope]

Recently my wife and I were sitting quietly in the living room, each of us surfing the web like usual. From nowhere she asks me who Ron Resnick is. Be careful. It could happen to you too.

Things haven’t been the same since.

What did you answer??

“‘80s Porn Star.” That’s what I would have said.

 

[Steve Williams]

Recently my wife and I were sitting quietly in the living room, each of us surfing the web like usual. From nowhere she asks me who Ron Resnick is. Be careful. It could happen to you too.

Things haven’t been the same since.

What did you answer??

“‘80s Porn Star.” That’s what I would have said.

This would be a great Woofer and Tweet Toon

 

[Taiko Audio]

I use Shunyata Altaira with fantastic results. I have not tried other solutions; but I recall Emile saying they were not worth it.

I can't imagine I said that, "grounding" most certainly can have a significant effect, it can be a mixed bag though, with simultaneous positives and negatives where it's considered "good" as long as the positives outweigh the negatives.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I never tell her what I buy for my media room. If she knew what it cost I’m not sure we would still be married!

Time for a WBF poll.
"Do you share a joint bank account with your partner?" Lol

 

[Taiko Audio]

I hope so too.
However the projected price of the Extreme Router is ...

Also, integrating the Extreme Router with the local home network & network vendors may not be as straightforward as the Extreme Switch.

A further point to consider is that the Extreme Router doesn't have wifi function.
Additional access-point devices for wifi and/or an usual router in the house are needed.

The router itself will be around 6K. A currently significant unknown part of that is support cost, which is greatly impacted by how "plug&play" it is. I have some positive news in that area as the way it does currently perform best here can actually be supplied as a "plug&play" package, which we're working on right now. Let me elaborate on that:

The most support intensive option would be to use our upcoming Router to replace your current Router serving your entire network where you create separate networks for your audio system and your other home network devices. This was the original goal, and still is an option, however it is not the best performing option from a sound quality POV.

We get the best result by far by using the Router to create an exclusive audio network consisting of 5 devices:

1) Router
2) Wi-fi Access Point (AP)
3) Switch
4) Server
5) Remote control device (Ipad or Android tablet)

A schematic overview:



This is less complex then it looks, a quick and "dirty" test setup:



The best description I can come up with what this setup "adds" is stability. It creates a silent / black background in which images are projected with absolute stability, floating in air. There's also a significant increase in detailing, texture retrieval and soundstage, which is larger, airier and more enveloping at the same time, but the stability of it all is what stands out most for me, and this is somewhat of an eye opener as adding more devices to the Router degrade this stability, creating a somewhat diffusing effect and diminishing image positional precision. The amount of "traffic" created on your home network does not affect this stability, we tested high data rate downloads, 4K video streaming etc, this is virtually undetectable where it does noticeably impacts things without the Router in place. Another interesting discovery is remote control device to server connection speed/latency has an effect, faster is better here, a faster Ipad, or a less cluttered Ipad with less apps which create background activity installed sounds better. And this goes for both local file and streaming playback.

We're currently testing multiple Wi-Fi Access Points (yes @Kris the TP link 660HD is amongst them), and Wi-Fi provided by the Router by means of PCIe M2 (internal) and USB Wi-Fi adapters (external).

More to follow soon!

 

[CKKeung]

The router itself will be around 6K. A currently significant unknown part of that is support cost, which is greatly impacted by how "plug&play" it is. I have some positive news in that area as the way it does currently perform best here can actually be supplied as a "plug&play" package, which we're working on right now. Let me elaborate on that:

The most support intensive option would be to use our upcoming Router to replace your current Router serving your entire network where you create separate networks for your audio system and your other home network devices. This was the original goal, and still is an option, however it is not the best performing option from a sound quality POV.

We get the best result by far by using the Router to create an exclusive audio network consisting of 5 devices:

1) Router
2) Wi-fi Access Point (AP)
3) Switch
4) Server
5) Remote control device (Ipad or Android tablet)

A schematic overview:

View attachment 107983

This is less complex then it looks, a quick and "dirty" test setup:

View attachment 107984

The best description I can come up with what this setup "adds" is stability. It creates a silent / black background in which images are projected with absolute stability, floating in air. There's also a significant increase in detailing, texture retrieval and soundstage, which is larger, airier and more enveloping at the same time, but the stability of it all is what stands out most for me, and this is somewhat of an eye opener as adding more devices to the Router degrade this stability, creating a somewhat diffusing effect and diminishing image positional precision. The amount of "traffic" created on your home network does not affect this stability, we tested high data rate downloads, 4K video streaming etc, this is virtually undetectable where it does noticeably impacts things without the Router in place. Another interesting discovery is remote control device to server connection speed/latency has an effect, faster is better here, a faster Ipad, or a less cluttered Ipad with less apps which create background activity installed sounds better. And this goes for both local file and streaming playback.

We're currently testing multiple Wi-Fi Access Points (yes @Kris the TP link 660HD is amongst them), and Wi-Fi provided by the Router by means of PCIe M2 (internal) and USB Wi-Fi adapters (external).

More to follow soon!

Thanks Emile!
I have 100% confidence in the sonic performance of the coming Extreme Router!

 

[RUIN*ish]

For now -
Keep existing house router/wifi access point. Use Taiko router in series and create an audio exclusive connection to hifi for best sound?

At one point it was said dedicated internet to the isp was not necessary.
Has that changed?

Mn

 

[Rhapsody]

For now -
Keep existing house router/wifi access point. Use Taiko router in series and create an audio exclusive connection to hifi for best sound?

At one point it was said dedicated internet to the isp was not necessary.
Has that changed?

Mn

Doesn't this from Emile's post above answer this question?

"The most support intensive option would be to use our upcoming Router to replace your current Router serving your entire network where you create separate networks for your audio system and your other home network devices. This was the original goal, and still is an option, however it is not the best performing option from a sound quality POV."

 

[RUIN*ish]

Doesn't this from Emile's post above answer this question?

"The most support intensive option would be to use our upcoming Router to replace your current Router serving your entire network where you create separate networks for your audio system and your other home network devices. This was the original goal, and still is an option, however it is not the best performing option from a sound quality POV."

I read the same thing you did. I wanted to ask. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused you.
Mn

 

[Rhapsody]

I read the same thing you did. I wanted to ask. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused you.
Mn

No inconvenience, just trying to point it out if you missed it as it seemed to answer your question.

 

[Taiko Audio]

For now -
Keep existing house router/wifi access point. Use Taiko router in series and create an audio exclusive connection to hifi for best sound?

Yes.

At one point it was said dedicated internet to the isp was not necessary.
Has that changed?

No, IMHO will not add much, if anything at all when set up like this.

 

[seatrope]

The router itself will be around 6K. A currently significant unknown part of that is support cost, which is greatly impacted by how "plug&play" it is. I have some positive news in that area as the way it does currently perform best here can actually be supplied as a "plug&play" package, which we're working on right now. Let me elaborate on that:

The most support intensive option would be to use our upcoming Router to replace your current Router serving your entire network where you create separate networks for your audio system and your other home network devices. This was the original goal, and still is an option, however it is not the best performing option from a sound quality POV.

We get the best result by far by using the Router to create an exclusive audio network consisting of 5 devices:

1) Router
2) Wi-fi Access Point (AP)
3) Switch
4) Server
5) Remote control device (Ipad or Android tablet)

A schematic overview:

View attachment 107983

This is less complex then it looks, a quick and "dirty" test setup:

View attachment 107984

The best description I can come up with what this setup "adds" is stability. It creates a silent / black background in which images are projected with absolute stability, floating in air. There's also a significant increase in detailing, texture retrieval and soundstage, which is larger, airier and more enveloping at the same time, but the stability of it all is what stands out most for me, and this is somewhat of an eye opener as adding more devices to the Router degrade this stability, creating a somewhat diffusing effect and diminishing image positional precision. The amount of "traffic" created on your home network does not affect this stability, we tested high data rate downloads, 4K video streaming etc, this is virtually undetectable where it does noticeably impacts things without the Router in place. Another interesting discovery is remote control device to server connection speed/latency has an effect, faster is better here, a faster Ipad, or a less cluttered Ipad with less apps which create background activity installed sounds better. And this goes for both local file and streaming playback.

We're currently testing multiple Wi-Fi Access Points (yes @Kris the TP link 660HD is amongst them), and Wi-Fi provided by the Router by means of PCIe M2 (internal) and USB Wi-Fi adapters (external).

More to follow soon!

@Taiko Audio if it’s available, might want to test some enterprise level AP like Ruckus unleashed R610/R720 and see how those stack up. I’ve been using an all Ruckus network for a while now and it’s rock solid but have not had the chance to do any comparisons with other APs.

 

[RUIN*ish]

Yes.



No, IMHO will not add much, if anything at all.

Emile
Thank you..
Appreciate your help..
Having the house updated for some network wiring.. Wanted to make sure all ducks were in line.
Mn

 

[aLLeARS]

The router itself will be around 6K. A currently significant unknown part of that is support cost, which is greatly impacted by how "plug&play" it is. I have some positive news in that area as the way it does currently perform best here can actually be supplied as a "plug&play" package, which we're working on right now. Let me elaborate on that:

The most support intensive option would be to use our upcoming Router to replace your current Router serving your entire network where you create separate networks for your audio system and your other home network devices. This was the original goal, and still is an option, however it is not the best performing option from a sound quality POV.

We get the best result by far by using the Router to create an exclusive audio network consisting of 5 devices:

1) Router
2) Wi-fi Access Point (AP)
3) Switch
4) Server
5) Remote control device (Ipad or Android tablet)

A schematic overview:

View attachment 107983

This is less complex then it looks, a quick and "dirty" test setup:

View attachment 107984

The best description I can come up with what this setup "adds" is stability. It creates a silent / black background in which images are projected with absolute stability, floating in air. There's also a significant increase in detailing, texture retrieval and soundstage, which is larger, airier and more enveloping at the same time, but the stability of it all is what stands out most for me, and this is somewhat of an eye opener as adding more devices to the Router degrade this stability, creating a somewhat diffusing effect and diminishing image positional precision. The amount of "traffic" created on your home network does not affect this stability, we tested high data rate downloads, 4K video streaming etc, this is virtually undetectable where it does noticeably impacts things without the Router in place. Another interesting discovery is remote control device to server connection speed/latency has an effect, faster is better here, a faster Ipad, or a less cluttered Ipad with less apps which create background activity installed sounds better. And this goes for both local file and streaming playback.

We're currently testing multiple Wi-Fi Access Points (yes @Kris the TP link 660HD is amongst them), and Wi-Fi provided by the Router by means of PCIe M2 (internal) and USB Wi-Fi adapters (external).

More to follow soon!

Thanks for posting this about the network setup and i-pad latency. My i-pad is several years old now. I will look at the specs to see if it's time to upgrade.
My network setup is exactly as you have described in the schematic. With the exception of an Edgerouter-X in place of the Taiko router in the audio network (hopefully to be remedied soon).
With the Taiko router, have you tried and is there still a benefit to isolating the audio Wi-Fi AP with fiber optic?
That was going to be the next thing on my list to try here.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks for posting this about the network setup and i-pad latency. My i-pad is several years old now. I will look at the specs to see if it's time to upgrade.
My network setup is exactly as you have described in the schematic. With the exception of an Edgerouter-X in place of the Taiko router in the audio network (hopefully to be remedied soon).
With the Taiko router, have you tried and is there still a benefit to isolating the audio Wi-Fi AP with fiber optic?
That was going to be the next thing on my list to try here.

That’s negative here.

 

[Zeotrope]

The router itself will be around 6K. A currently significant unknown part of that is support cost, which is greatly impacted by how "plug&play" it is. I have some positive news in that area as the way it does currently perform best here can actually be supplied as a "plug&play" package, which we're working on right now. Let me elaborate on that:

The most support intensive option would be to use our upcoming Router to replace your current Router serving your entire network where you create separate networks for your audio system and your other home network devices. This was the original goal, and still is an option, however it is not the best performing option from a sound quality POV.

We get the best result by far by using the Router to create an exclusive audio network consisting of 5 devices:

1) Router
2) Wi-fi Access Point (AP)
3) Switch
4) Server
5) Remote control device (Ipad or Android tablet)

A schematic overview:

View attachment 107983

This is less complex then it looks, a quick and "dirty" test setup:

View attachment 107984

The best description I can come up with what this setup "adds" is stability. It creates a silent / black background in which images are projected with absolute stability, floating in air. There's also a significant increase in detailing, texture retrieval and soundstage, which is larger, airier and more enveloping at the same time, but the stability of it all is what stands out most for me, and this is somewhat of an eye opener as adding more devices to the Router degrade this stability, creating a somewhat diffusing effect and diminishing image positional precision. The amount of "traffic" created on your home network does not affect this stability, we tested high data rate downloads, 4K video streaming etc, this is virtually undetectable where it does noticeably impacts things without the Router in place. Another interesting discovery is remote control device to server connection speed/latency has an effect, faster is better here, a faster Ipad, or a less cluttered Ipad with less apps which create background activity installed sounds better. And this goes for both local file and streaming playback.

We're currently testing multiple Wi-Fi Access Points (yes @Kris the TP link 660HD is amongst them), and Wi-Fi provided by the Router by means of PCIe M2 (internal) and USB Wi-Fi adapters (external).

More to follow soon!

Very interesting! I was not planning to replace my existing Modem/Router and was intending to install the Taiko Router between my existing Eero 6E satellite/base station in the Media Room and the Taiko Switch. Sounds like this will be best for SQ as well, which is great.

Now, my Apple TV “X” [heavily modified ATV] is connected to the same Eero (via Ethernet). I mentioned earlier that with the new Network card and Switch, the sound quality of the ATVX improved significantly (similar to how Emile described it above for the Extreme).
I suppose everything connected to the Taiko Router should get a reduction in background noise, correct?

Like this?
(note no wired connection between the Taiko Router and the main Modem/Router.)

 

[Rhapsody]

It seems to me that the router is going to be the most complicated new device to integrate into different Taiko users systems vs. the NIC card, Switch, BPS, TACDA/TACD.

I don't expect an answer to my scenario below, but it is an example of how looking at what I currently have installed and looking at the proposed Taiko Router possible configurations, makes me "scratch my head" and compose this post.


In my set up I have a Verizon ISP router that needs to be in the system for various tv/set top box reasons, then off one of the ports of the Verizon/Fios router I connect to a

Araknis-DUAL-WAN GIGABIT VPN ROUTER AN-31-RT-4L2W to distribute to 20 locations throughout the house.​

I have six each Araknis Networks AN-510-AP-I-AC AP's that are connected to hardwire connections from the ARaknis router located throughout the house.

My audio network (Extreme/Ipads/Macbook) that supplies hardwire to the Extreme and wireless for control via the AP's throughout the house is from the Araknis Router.

If I run the Taiko Router off of the Verizon router then how would I be able to utilize my six AP's that are already in place and connected to the Araknis router.

So, this is an example, and my question is will Taiko be helping people (like me) figuring out the best set up or will that be up to each individual to sort out their optimum network that meets the needs of the audio network as well as the rest of the required network for the other 20+ connected devices in the home?