Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

I understand that as well. But if 5 meters is the sweet spot how do you explain to the person who needs an 8 meter DAC that it won't perform as well as the 5 meter cable

The maximum DAC cable length is 7 meters, why the 5 meter length is the sweetspot for the QSA treatment I don’t know.

 

[Taiko Audio]

@Taiko Audio

Hi Emile,

One thing came to my mind today.

The switch and router make a coherent whole. The whole being more than the sum of its parts.

Wouldn't it be possible to do something like that?

A single block with both PCBs?

I'd love to have something like that. More compact, simpler and visually more appealing.

View attachment 111006

Well the thing is EMI/RFI is airborne inside the chassis and can couple back into the circuit, ofcourse you could create 2 internal chambers, but this would both be about the same size / weight and actually a bit more expensive, especially for post treatment / finishing and a higher change of transport damage, especially since customs appears to like to unpack these frequently to check what that massive blob is showing up on their Xrays.

 

[7ryder]

Well although your “liking” will determine your choice of filters they’re not just “voicing” filters, they’re different filters which will do a better job with different noise spectra as for example generated by different makes/types of Linear Power Supplies and/or the noise spectrum of your mains system.

Damn, there you go with your science again! ;-)

 

[Taiko Audio]

Damn, there you go with your science again! ;-)

Just trying to live up to my label:

 

[Taiko Audio]

Perhaps not the right metaphor, but using QSA products with Taiko products seems like using Chinese herbal medicine with real antibiotics to treat an infection. Maybe the Chinese herbs have a benefit but I'd like the Taiko doctor to weight in before I would consider any of their products on the Extreme+switch+router+DCD. Taiko has gone to great lengths to voice their sound very carefully and I'm not sure I'm ready to use 3rd party anything until I get some sense from Taiko as to its merits. (Perhaps the 5m cable requirement is to leave room for a noose if their cable doesn't work out?)

Noosing conductors could compromise signal integrity.

 

[SwissTom]

Well the thing is EMI/RFI is airborne inside the chassis and can couple back into the circuit, ofcourse you could create 2 internal chambers, but this would both be about the same size / weight and actually a bit more expensive, especially for post treatment / finishing and a higher change of transport damage, especially since customs appears to like to unpack these frequently to check what that massive blob is showing up on their Xrays.

Hi Emile,

Yes, the idea would have been to make two chambers. Separate beds if I may say so ;-))

But I understand the production and shipping constraints.

Nevertheless, I found the idea appealing.

Good luck with the rest of your projects.

I'm looking forward to the looks of the new Extreme BPS and the products that Taiko Audio has in the pipeline.

Cheers,

Thomas

 

[nonesup]

We’ll supply 2 DC cables so you’d need one more I guess. Every cable has a sonic signature, similar to your plug plating explorations and you could extrapolate from that as far as material choices go, the good thing about the DC distributor is you can largely compensate by choosing a different filter.

By the way Emile, would it be possible for the two CC cables to have a slightly longer length, say 130 cm, even if you had to pay a price for it?

 

[Koegz]

Wilburys favorite spot. Extreme runner up.

 

[nonesup]

Wilburys favorite spot. Extreme runner up.

Well, I hope that cat's prostate is in perfect condition……..

 

[Dunc69]

Hi you lot, can I ask a few questions please as I am sure you lot will soon answer them.

I have a dCS vivaldi dac and upsampler, plus a melco N10 that I have all my cd's ripped on.

Questions.
I take it I wouldn't need the melco any more, and I can transfer over easily.

Going forward can you rip direct like I can with the melco using a disc drive ( I have the melco d100 for this)

How does the sound quality differ from the built in streamer in the upsampler.

Is usb the only way to connect, as dcs say this isn't the best way for them.

I see you also do a switch now, I have the PhoenixNet anyone tried them both, or is the taiko one just more suited.

Can you download directly from qobuz like the melco, as I don't want to have to buy a pc just for this.

Finally do I still need the upsampler if I went roon, as this can do that I believe? If so sound quality, which is better?

I have tried roon before and found I preferred qobuz streamed directly rather than through roon, but obviously not through a taiko extreme

Cheers in advance dunc

 

[oldmustang]

Hi you lot, can I ask a few questions please as I am sure you lot will soon answer them.

I have a dCS vivaldi dac and upsampler, plus a melco N10 that I have all my cd's ripped on.

Questions.
I take it I wouldn't need the melco any more, and I can transfer over easily.

Going forward can you rip direct like I can with the melco using a disc drive ( I have the melco d100 for this)

How does the sound quality differ from the built in streamer in the upsampler.

Is usb the only way to connect, as dcs say this isn't the best way for them.

I see you also do a switch now, I have the PhoenixNet anyone tried them both, or is the taiko one just more suited.

Can you download directly from qobuz like the melco, as I don't want to have to buy a pc just for this.

Finally do I still need the upsampler if I went roon, as this can do that I believe? If so sound quality, which is better?

I have tried roon before and found I preferred qobuz streamed directly rather than through roon, but obviously not through a taiko extreme

Cheers in advance dunc

I'll try to answer some of your questions. I don't have any experience with the Melco, however.

The Extreme does not have a optical disc drive, so no ripping directly with the Extreme. I use a Mac laptop with an external optical drive attached, running the program dBpoweramp to do my CD ripping and a retired OPPO 103 to rip SACDs. I then utilize the metadata editor Yate to ensure all metadata tags are filled out and how I like them. At that point I transfer the files from my laptop to to the Extreme over my local area network. It is a very simple process.

You can connect via ethernet from Extreme to Upsampler, however the Taiko USB card results in a very significant improvement in overall sound quality. Taiko have drivers optimized for a wide range of partnering DACs and includes the dCS Vivaldi Upsampler and DAC. I tried ethernet from Extreme to Upsampler early on and found no clear preference for ethernet. Once Taiko released their USB card it was no contest -- USB sound quality is much superior to ethernet.

As far as downloading from Qobuz directly to the Extreme, in principle I suppose one could do this -- it is a highly modified PC after all. However, I prefer to use the work-flow described above to make sure all the metadata tags of downloaded files are correct.

In case you meant streamed from Qobuz rather than purchased and downloaded files, that works exceptionally well via Roon or via Taiko's own software player control app, XDMS. XDMS is currently in alpha testing and so not released to the Extreme ownership at large at present time. However, it promises to be a no-compromise sound quality alternative to Roon. XDMS works with Qobuz, Tidal and Idagio.

I would suggest planning on keeping your Upsampler at least until you have had the chance to compare Roon upsampling vs. dedicated hardware upsampling such as the dCS Upsampler provides. In my experience, the more you engage the bells and whistles of Roon the more of a sound quality hit you will take.

The Extreme certainly has the horsepower to do Roon upsampling, however one of the core tenents of the Taiko design philosophy is to provide a very powerful platform but to distribute and minimize current- and processor-intensive demands.

My personal order of preference between XDMS, Roon and Mosaic (dCS' software player/DAC and Upsampler controller) is XDMS for ultimate sound quality, Roon for a wonderfully rich, relational user interface, and Mosaic to allow me to control the Upsampler and DAC filters and settings via an iPad. I find XDMS and Roon to be "close but slightly different" in terms of sound quality and both are more than good enough for me to let me completely enjoy my music. Mosaic I thought was better than Roon in terms of sound quality back when I used a different server/streamer. However, now that the Extreme/Taiko USB card/Taiko switch have been released I find I prefer Roon to Mosaic, which seems somewhat flatter and drier than either Roon or XDMS. Roon sound quality is improved by following the simple setup instructions for configuring on the Taiko website.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Steve Z

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Am I correct when I remembered Emile stated to use shortest useable DAC in one's system. Im not knocking QSA but I find the thought of paying for a 5 meter cable because it sounds better to be a stretch

This little grasshopper seems to be short sighted

Emile indicated (at the time) not having done very extensive tests but found the length with the cables at hand to have a relatively insignificant impact on the sound and thus suggest simply siding with the practically ideal length.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Hi you lot, can I ask a few questions please as I am sure you lot will soon answer them.

I have a dCS vivaldi dac and upsampler, plus a melco N10 that I have all my cd's ripped on.

Questions.
I take it I wouldn't need the melco any more, and I can transfer over easily.

Going forward can you rip direct like I can with the melco using a disc drive ( I have the melco d100 for this)

How does the sound quality differ from the built in streamer in the upsampler.

Is usb the only way to connect, as dcs say this isn't the best way for them.

I see you also do a switch now, I have the PhoenixNet anyone tried them both, or is the taiko one just more suited.

Can you download directly from qobuz like the melco, as I don't want to have to buy a pc just for this.

Finally do I still need the upsampler if I went roon, as this can do that I believe? If so sound quality, which is better?

I have tried roon before and found I preferred qobuz streamed directly rather than through roon, but obviously not through a taiko extreme

Cheers in advance dunc

Hi @Dunc69 ,

I see @oldmustang answered most of your questions already, thank you Steve! Yes USB is currently the superior method of connecting your DCS DAC. And I agree with Steve using the DCS upsampler is the better way to go over having Roon upsample for you.

The Taiko switch would surely elevate things a notch over the PnoenixNet, amongst other by enabling you to use a DAC (Direct Attach Cable) to connect to the Extreme which is a superior method of connection over RJ45.

You can also connect the Melco directly to the Extreme and install dbpoweramp on the Extreme, though you should probably disconnect the Melco during critical listening as any additional connected device inevitably has an impact on SQ.

Let us know if anything is unclear.

 

[Taiko Audio]

By the way Emile, would it be possible for the two CC cables to have a slightly longer length, say 130 cm, even if you had to pay a price for it?

Although we'd love to be able to accommodate that I'm afraid we can't.

 

[nenon]

By the way Emile, would it be possible for the two CC cables to have a slightly longer length, say 130 cm, even if you had to pay a price for it?

Although we'd love to be able to accommodate that I'm afraid we can't.

https://www.ghentaudio.com - you can order custom cable lengths here.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Let me ask this. Does it or would it affect the SQ if we kept the cabling (VGA) for a windows laptop connected to the back of the Extreme and hidden under our shelving until needed? A little dust cover could keep the connector safe.

Does XDMS require initial installation by accessing the rear of the Extreme?

Sorry @Audire , I missed this question. No that won’t hurt. To clarify, the monitor is only useful to diagnose an actual hardware malfunction, it could then be used to identify the malfunctioning part allowing for just shipping a replacement part in stead of shipping the entire server back and forth. Although our failure rate is low, even after 5 years of the Extreme’s existence, failures can occur, and if your physical condition makes it difficult to handle a heavy piece of gear like the Extreme that’s most certainly a valid buying consideration. The N30SA is an excellent server and I understand you will be able to run Roon on it in the near future should the Conductor user interface be part of your consideration to switch servers.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Wilburys favorite spot. Extreme runner up.

Beautiful system!

 

[Alex G]

Perhaps not the right metaphor, but using QSA products with Taiko products seems like using Chinese herbal medicine with real antibiotics to treat an infection. Maybe the Chinese herbs have a benefit but I'd like the Taiko doctor to weight in before I would consider any of their products on the Extreme+switch+router+DCD. Taiko has gone to great lengths to voice their sound very carefully and I'm not sure I'm ready to use 3rd party anything until I get some sense from Taiko as to its merits. (Perhaps the 5m cable requirement is to leave room for a noose if their cable doesn't work out?)

Just chiming in on the QSA Lanedri DAC cable. I think anyone here should try one, including @Taiko Audio. I would love to hear what they have to say. A number of us find it to be a significant upgrade and do not find it to be a voicing effect. It will be interesting to test the impact once Taiko’s DC device launches and I am happy to report back when that arrives.

I wouldn‘t make a “Western” vs “Eastern” medicine analogy here. That is a little gratuitous in both directions. I totally get the second point re respecting Taiko’s “voicing” but, that said, aren’t ISP modems, LPSs, and cables in general all 3rd party? We all have pretty different configs here and I would guess many of you spend a ton of $ already on cabling?

I just suggest to try if you can! You may like it!

 

[nonesup]

https://www.ghentaudio.com - you can order custom cable lengths here.

Well of course that is possible. I just wanted to know if the ones that Taiko sends could have another measure. In fact 1 meter might be enough, but it's right on the edge.

 

[Kingsrule]

Just chiming in on the QSA Lanedri DAC cable. I think anyone here should try one, including @Taiko Audio. I would love to hear what they have to say. A number of us find it to be a significant upgrade and do not think it is a voicing effect. This will be easier to test once Taiko’s DC device launches so I am happy to report back when that arrives.

I wouldn‘t make a “Western” vs “Eastern” medicine analogy here. That is a little gratuitous in both directions. I understand and respect the second point re respecting Taiko’s “voicing” but, that said, aren’t ISP modems, LPSs, AC cables, and cables in general all 3rd party? Don’t most of you spend a ton of $ already on cabling?

Try it if you can! You may like it!

$7000 for a $20 cable "treated"??? I don't think so......