TechDAS Air Force 2

[PeterA]

May be the system/room employed did not have the resolution to show up the difference between AF1 and AF2? I completely agree with rockitman that it is easy to hear the difference between two AF1 platters. Heck, I could hear the difference between having the motor cover on and off with the AF1 (even though this I totally did not expect). On the AF1 I had experience with (prototype suspension) you can even hear the difference when using different racks under the HRS platform provided.

I don't doubt that one could easily hear the differences between different platter materials on the same turntable, but if both tables had the same platter, would their differences be very audible? Just curious. Aesthetically and price wise, there is a very big difference between the two tables. The AF1 appears much more refined with exemplary fit and finish. And it seems to be an extremely well designed/engineered and fairly complex product.

And what do you make of the designer himself saying "basically no difference" when asked about the AF1 and AF2 comparison? What do you think he meant with that response?

I wonder how different the two Kronos tables sound, or the SME 30/3 and the 20/3. Of course I can't be sure, but I would think that their designers would describe the sonic differences in pretty clear terms and describe the reasons.

Nishikawa-san's response is pretty interesting.

 

[jpetek]

No they don´t. it is not easy to compare two players out of the memory.

Noboby heard both player against each other in the same system. Right?

Personaly I think there is no big difference, if any.

 

[JackD201]

I know. Makes me wish I knew how to speak Japanese fluently. In Alan's interview Nishikawa-san says the difference is in the ability of the AF1 to better portray hall space. Something I could not discern under noisy show conditions. The 2 AF2s I've set up don't exactly suck at that so I can't be sure how much better the AF1 is in that regard.

 

[ddk]

Heard them side by side last summer at their offices. Even with the same family sonic signature there are distinct, and depending on your system significant differences between the two. The extra cost of AF1 isn't wasted in a good setup!

 

[garylkoh]

Hmmm.... looks like Nishikawa-san has gone away from the HRS platform too. I demo'ed to him a different platform when I showed at CES2013. Domenico here on wbf also uses a platform I designed for his AF1.

 

[PeterA]

Heard them side by side last summer at their offices. Even with the same family sonic signature there are distinct, and depending on your system significant differences between the two. The extra cost of AF1 isn't wasted in a good setup!

View attachment 19228

DDK, Do you remember if the AF2 and AF1 in this photo are using the same platter? They appear to be different colors, as well as the center of one is black and the other white. Also, the edge profile near the vacuum seal looks different. Interestingly, the belt also appears to ride higher up the platter on the AF1. The arm wands also look different. Perhaps the differences are only cosmetic, but if the arms and platters are slightly different, then that could explain the different presentations.

Does HRS make a custom platform for the AF2 as well? Here neither table has one.

 

[ddk]

DDK, Do you remember if the AF2 and AF1 in this photo are using the same platter? They appear to be different colors, as well as the center of one is black and the other white. Also, the edge profile near the vacuum seal looks different. Interestingly, the belt also appears to ride higher up the platter on the AF1. The arm wands also look different. Perhaps the differences are only cosmetic, but if the arms and platters are slightly different, then that could explain the different presentations.

Does HRS make a custom platform for the AF2 as well? Here neither table has one.

Peter, platter construction is different on these tables, he was using the aluminum platter with the AF1. The arms where both Graham's, one was Phantom and the other one Elite or whatever they're called. The difference in sound wasn't nuanced or small to attribute it to anything but the turntables. Nishikawa San and his team are established veterans in this field with an enviable track record second to none, they know exactly what they're doing when they design for different price points. You very much get what you pay for with TechDas, no games here.

dacid

 

[Altanpsx]

Indeed it is very interesting. I heart both of the new phantom and elite, and I am using elite for nearly a year. I can easily say that Elite is superior then phantom. It is gamechanger tonearm. If one tt has it, it has a huge advantage. From the pictures, it looks like elite mounted on af2, and phantom mounted on af1. If someone find a difference favoring af1 against af2 in this conditions, basicly they have a big difference. I really dont know why at Munich Nishikawa San said two tt has basicly no difference, but when a legend talks, everyone believes...

 

[Ron Resnick]

I share Peter's puzzlement about the comment that there is "basically no difference" in sound between the AF1 and the AF2. The crackled paint finish on the AF2 looks on close-up photos like what you see on common gym equipment. Is the AF1 buyer paying a premium primarily, if not entirely, for a more polished finish?

 

[hvbias]

I share Peter's puzzlement about the comment that there is "basically no difference" in sound between the AF1 and the AF2. The crackled paint finish on the AF2 looks on close-up photos like what you see on common gym equipment. Is the AF1 buyer paying a premium primarily, if not entirely, for a more polished finish?

I imagine it is homage to the Micro Seiki SX-8000 which has the same hammer tone finish paint:

And just my personal taste/opinion one of the best looking turntables ever made.... I like all the squared off corners without feet pods sticking out, though the armboard does throw off the perfection.

 

[wizard]

AF 2 review

 

[Frank750]

Newly Set up AirForce 2

It certainly hasn't let me down. Extraordinary!

The clarity and space are the first qualities that hit me. As things started to settle, the soundstage began expanding front to back, side to side with layering unlike anything I've heard in one of my systems prior to this.
I'm still trying to get a hold of what is going on here. I wasn't expecting this!
I can't imagine what the AF1 must sound like.

One of the differences between the AF2 and AF1 is that one box (pictured below) contains the power supply and air pump on the AF2 as opposed to two separate boxes on the AF1.
Pump is dead quiet and every record lies completely flat on the platter. What a luxury!
I'm running the Graham Elite arm, right now with a Phantom arm wand while I wait on the Elite wand.

 

[rockitman]

Happy for you Frank. Congrats !

 

[jazdoc]

Happy for you Frank. Congrats !

+1!! Beautiful

 

[PeterA]

Congratulations Frank. Love the photographs and the sound seems wonderful. Enjoy!

 

[MadFloyd]

Congrats, Frank, I can only imagine how good it must sound!

 

[number95]

It certainly hasn't let me down. Extraordinary!

The clarity and space are the first qualities that hit me. As things started to settle, the soundstage began expanding front to back, side to side with layering unlike anything I've heard in one of my systems prior to this.
I'm still trying to get a hold of what is going on here. I wasn't expecting this!
I can't imagine what the AF1 must sound like.

One of the differences between the AF2 and AF1 is that one box (pictured below) contains the power supply and air pump on the AF2 as opposed to two separate boxes on the AF1.
Pump is dead quiet and every record lies completely flat on the platter. What a luxury!
I'm running the Graham Elite arm, right now with a Phantom arm wand while I wait on the Elite wand.

View attachment 20040View attachment 20041View attachment 20042

Congratulations Frank! Given your initial impressions are nothing but impressive, does it also mean AF2 outperform SME 30/12 in every way?

 

[JackD201]

Congratulations and welcome to the family Frank

 

[Frank750]

Congratulations Frank! Given your initial impressions are nothing but impressive, does it also mean AF2 outperform SME 30/12 in every way?

I responded to number95 in a PM regarding my perception of the AF2. No reason I can't share it with the general forum for anyone who cares.

The Graham arm arrived and I set up the table this past Monday.
Looks great and the vacuum pull down is a treat. The pump is so quiet you wouldn't know it's there even though I have it right behind my rack.

I was really concerned the first couple of days. Sound was thin, no bass to speak of, not very impressive at all. Wednesday morning things started to get better and by Wednesday night it really started to sing!

Now there is no comparison, at least in my opinion and in my system between the 30/12 and the AF2. The AF2 is so quiet, maybe that's why everything, and I mean everything seems so crystal clear. No hardness or stridency. It's very smooth, fluid, almost liquid.
Every note seems more distinguishable than ever. Instrument placement is more distinct and separated. Bass notes are deep and more defined than I've ever heard in the past.
The soundstage is deeper, wider and in some cases instruments come farther forward in front of the speaker than before but still with the incredible depth making the soundstage come even more alive.
Attack, slam and decay are more evident, sometimes even startling.

Not to say the 30/12 isn't a great table because it is. I didn't expect this much of an overall improvement but the AF2 just does everything BETTER, much better. And I don't even have the Elite arm wand yet. Bob Graham says things will get noticeably better when that is added to the Elite arm.

 

[Frank750]

Congratulations and welcome to the family Frank

Thanks Jack! I can honestly say it's great to be a part of the family.
It was guys like you and Christian who got me to try the AF2 and I'm very happy I did.