TechDas Air Force One

[garylkoh]

The TechDAS is starting to distract me more...

The best turntable that Bob Graham and Harry Pearson (and also Gary Koh) has ever heard....... there's got to be some credibility there

 

[rockitman]

The best turntable that Bob Graham and Harry Pearson (and also Gary Koh) has ever heard....... there's got to be some credibility there

no doubt...only one other issue....$$$$

 

[garylkoh]

A few more pictures of the AF1 that was set-up at CES 2013 in the Genesis room.

Here it is fitted with the Vertere Reference Tonearm in the standard right-hand position, and the 12" Graham Phantom II Supreme in the back. The cartridges are my heavily modified Magic Diamond on the Vertere and my heavily modified Virus on the Graham.



One of the most useful features (to me) of the Air Force One are the two buttons on the front of the turntable. This allows the user to adjust the pitch of the music being played. More about this here: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...nniversary-Show-International-CES-2013/page16

 

[rockitman]

sure beats the micro screwdrivers needed on most pitch control pots when built into a turntable.

 

[airbearing]

Although I have been aware of the thread started by Gary, I only recently saw the comments myself. So, at last, here is the official Western Hemisphere distributor signing on...!

So many comments, so little typing space. As for "AirBearing", I'd only add that the need for a second motor is debatable, and the belt tension vectors involved in a device with this much intertia will be so small as to be considered only as a theoritical discussion; i.e., don't worry about it for one minute. There's always something to debate, and we all have our favorite concepts, but believe me, this table has been WELL thought out. I've also spent the last 5 or 6 months living with one and getting very used to it. As I said in the interview, if I were to make a high-end table myself, and had large resources to pour into it, this would be the product I'd be aiming for..!

To "Gregadd" and his air-bearing tangential arm fascination, that's well and good. But it has a definite downside, and it's not entirely the rage, either. Cartridge energy cannot be so easily dissipated in an air-bearing arm, nor can the arm be properly grounded for maximum extension and solitity. I've studied the pros and cons of air-bearing arms, and for me - and with all due respect to the best designs out there - there is no free lunch in this stuff. A direct comparison between the best pivoted arms and air-bearing units will provide the answer, and except for that test, everything else is personal preference. Of course, there's nothing like a audiophile with an axe to grind to show pure stubborness, and the debates on these things can fly fast and furious. Which is why I tend to avoid them, and go about my business, trying to make the best analogue reproducers I can, and which, hopefully, will be seen and heard that way by customers and reviewers...

As for my "special" arm for the Air Force One, it is an extension of the current Supreme. It's to be called simply the "Elite" and will have an even more refined main pivot assembly, with styling cues to match the turntable. I am designing new internal wire, very much more costly to make, and will be licensed from Nordost. Unlike earllier arms, the Elite will be supplied with an output cable with similar characteristics to the internal wire.

I'm sure Mr. Nishikawa is as proud of his turntable design as I am of the Phantom series. The "Elite" should continue this tradition, and with the addition of being really matched to this remarkable turntabale. Together, I believe they make a most formidable pair. the price is not cheap, but I'm trying to strike a fair balance for an outstanding combination.

My thanks for all the threads and to Gary Koh for starting this thread. In addition to seeing one setup in Gary's Genesis room, I invite anyone going to CES to come visit us, as the official representative, in the Lamm exchibit room on 35-309 at the Venetian. - Happy trails, Bob Graham

Hi Bob,

I agree with you on air-bearing tonearms.
Don't agree on the "2-motors and belt tension"-debate.

we have made extensively tests with one, two and three motor designs. Two motors is best (many audio fellows agree, of course . Next was testing the impact of vector forces. You can hear the difference. But it also depends on the system (table, tonearms etc.). As we live in a world of compromises, also in High End Audio, I am pretty sure most people will enjoy the TechDas qualities and your arm design. So I wish you happy sales and enjoy life - don`t work so hard anymore...

best
airbearing (Eckart)

 

[carolkoh]

View attachment 7645

One of the most useful features (to me) of the Air Force One are the two buttons on the front of the turntable. This allows the user to adjust the pitch of the music being played. More about this here: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...nniversary-Show-International-CES-2013/page16

Personally, I loved the ability to switch from 33.3 RPM to 45 RPM with the press of a button. None of this - lifting the platter, changing the belt, etc. etc. nonsense!

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Personally, I loved the ability to switch from 33.3 RPM to 45 RPM with the press of a button. None of this - lifting the platter, changing the belt, etc. etc. nonsense!

This would make for a good thread drift... what tables are completely manual for speed changing?

 

[airbearing]

Personally, I loved the ability to switch from 33.3 RPM to 45 RPM with the press of a button. None of this - lifting the platter, changing the belt, etc. etc. nonsense!

oh yes, agree absolutely. this is very comfortable! and when pressing real buttons you have a wonderful haptic feeling

 

[mep]

This would make for a good thread drift... what tables are completely manual for speed changing?

I'm with Carol on this. I wouldn't dream of owning a table that required platter removal and belt movement in order to change speeds. I think the last table I owned that required that was the revised AR table. I also wouldn't own a table that requires you to start spinning the platter by hand in order to get the platter moving.

 

[airbearing]

absolutely MEP, terrible imagination. we know what the technological benchmark is since 25 years, don't we!

 

[b3344]

hi I'm new I'm reading this for a while .
I just see two side , one is almost seller , one is player and theory man .
I'm confuse that why somebody care only technical more than sound result ? what is this technic for? what we playing ? what is happiness ?
I have more than micro seiki with air bearing in my house , I repair it , built it, find it , test it compare it ? one motor 2 motor or one motor with fly wheel.
result 2 motor is good for vector but it make more vibration and more rumble noise if we use rubble belt . if we use micro yarn this reduce vibration but less bass and more airly .
you will see every technic will have their own problem , but what will be the best choice for technic ?? for me that not important .

the most important for all technic design is The sound Result !!!!

before i play micro I buy and try many turntable cheap to expensive most of them have their own character . but i still hear rumble ( i love to play lound) one day I have a dream that why turntable should have magnatic float or air float system until i found micro seiki and it sound amazing eventhough very old.
the i start to collect and repair by my self till i have more micro seiki ,I built my own air pump and make a glass for air suspension like diy . this turn work so well and sound so good . but because of 30 year technology always have some problem like old motor type speed not stable ..... due to technology .
air pump noise . i hope someday micro seiki would comeback from dead and make the better turntable.

until i saw techdas .. this is my dream . I put my all my net on this Air force one that this gonna be better and I order it with out listen . and it arrived yesterday with another 2 Air Force one for my friend who never listen before too . but I trust in micro seiki technic.

after setup like the old day of micro seiki , I guest right . Sound for quiet and best stable speed and better detail resolution in bass and treble and more 3d when compare to my micro seiki sx 5000II . over all control feel comfortable , I feel my 5000II like a junk , I feel amazing why base on 30 year technic make more difference in sound like this . this two turn table almost the same technic but one is old and one is new . at first i think it should not much difference in sound but i guest wrong .

 

[mep]

Sawadee krup. If I read what you wrote correctly, you are very happy with the sound of the Air Force One. I'm happy for you and I hope you enjoy this table very much. What tonearm are you using?

 

[FrantzM]

b3344

A warm welcome. I will visit your beautiful country this year. I have a close relative who lives there you see...

I understand your point. If it sounds good to you and you can afford it, please by all means , enjoy it. But and I am sure you knew the "But" was coming Have you compared your Micro Seiki to a variety of tables and found it superior to these? If yes which tables?

If your basis of comparison is only the Micro Seiki I would think that is not enough ...

 

[b3344]

so we can't just which technology will sound better until we hear it !!!

 

[FrantzM]

B3344

Not sure I understand your point... meanwhile, enjoy your system.

 

[b3344]

Air force one i have has difference from version of mr bob and mr koh at hong kong , 1 is isolation system they change to liquid mix with air ( early version us only air and have refill port ) and I saw in web site they also change spec too .

by the way I use 20 year old tone arm but it still good look with this turntable.

Techdas is expensive but it still as good turntable and good sound eventhough it use 30 year old technic .. what you care ? sound or tehcnic ?

 

[Gregadd]

That gives new meaning to the term "some assembly required.*

 

[Bruce B]

That gives new meaning to the term "some assembly required.

Batteries Not Included!

 

[b3344]

I have many turntable i think now almost 30 turntable in my house now most are well know turntable ... but that the point . I base compare on many turntable i every listen and my own used
i'm not a reviewer I just share my opinion from my own test . that it kub

thanks for a warm welcome kub nice to share to all your .

 

[PeterA]

hi I'm new I'm reading this for a while .
I just see two side , one is almost seller , one is player and theory man .
I'm confuse that why somebody care only technical more than sound result ? what is this technic for? what we playing ? what is happiness ?
I have more than micro seiki with air bearing in my house , I repair it , built it, find it , test it compare it ? one motor 2 motor or one motor with fly wheel.
result 2 motor is good for vector but it make more vibration and more rumble noise if we use rubble belt . if we use micro yarn this reduce vibration but less bass and more airly .
you will see every technic will have their own problem , but what will be the best choice for technic ?? for me that not important .

the most important for all technic design is The sound Result !!!!

before i play micro I buy and try many turntable cheap to expensive most of them have their own character . but i still hear rumble ( i love to play lound) one day I have a dream that why turntable should have magnatic float or air float system until i found micro seiki and it sound amazing eventhough very old.
the i start to collect and repair by my self till i have more micro seiki ,I built my own air pump and make a glass for air suspension like diy . this turn work so well and sound so good . but because of 30 year technology always have some problem like old motor type speed not stable ..... due to technology .
air pump noise . i hope someday micro seiki would comeback from dead and make the better turntable.

until i saw techdas .. this is my dream . I put my all my net on this Air force one that this gonna be better and I order it with out listen . and it arrived yesterday with another 2 Air Force one for my friend who never listen before too . but I trust in micro seiki technic.

after setup like the old day of micro seiki , I guest right . Sound for quiet and best stable speed and better detail resolution in bass and treble and more 3d when compare to my micro seiki sx 5000II . over all control feel comfortable , I feel my 5000II like a junk , I feel amazing why base on 30 year technic make more difference in sound like this . this two turn table almost the same technic but one is old and one is new . at first i think it should not much difference in sound but i guest wrong .

Welcome to the forum b3344. Congratulations on your new TechDas turntable. Could you describe the rest of your system and perhaps post some photographs? That's a lot of arms and turntable parts. What other turntables have you compared to your old Micro Seiki?