The 1st SGM Server EVO Edition in Hong Kong

[Taiko Audio]

Have you guys tried any Xeon chips ? It’s truly amazing how the CPU chips each have a sound. No one would believe it and the same for main boards too.
I like the sound thus far of a Xeon E3-1275 v3 3.5 ghz
It’s used in two of the three pcs and of course the main board is also older and love that sound
I have the previous SGM running on my NAS it when used as a single pc had a wonderful sound too.
The fact you have considered the sound of chips and the likes is why your product is at the level it is after design and implementation
Pretty amazing posts and thanks for the replies.

You're welcome! Admittedly we were very surprised with some of these discoveries as well.

Yes we have several Xeon Scalable CPU's, they've been a bit crippled with the Spectre and Meltdown fixes which you could choose to ignore to apply (run an old bios version). The upcoming Cascade Lake looks promising.

 

[Alrainbow]

Yes but as I don’t make products I have a bit more lea way. It’s a very tough business your in as you have many sides pushing you guys.
Ultimately sound must win and does with your stuff. I can only imagine the arguments about the choices you make.
What I do is just sound and competly not a practice to manufacture.
I did not know we used the same cpu but it does sound damn good. The bias is old that too matters as you know much less the huge choices in the bias to use. It’s amazing that just one pick can destroy the great sound and one makes it a wow Change.
To keep a top tier server and make them you need the same exacting products must be a job in it self. Then keep people away from messing with it. You guys must have some good stories lol.
I like the Xeon for not having any video on the chip. I also tried the main board OS as well.
I don’t want to ask any more questions as it may expose the whys in your great products are such.
Feel free to email me and I can discuss more if you wish but it does sound like you guys have tried all ideals to get to where you are now on top.
I have a new risen amd chip and mainboard to try for a friend. It’s one of those many rumors to be best lol. Let’s see how true it is.
I use win ser 2016 and have some Cust software for it. But I don’t program like you guys so your stuff is way more advanced then mine is. Roon server to hq is a win for me too.
Glad to read the new servers can use internal drives too. But the truth is as you have found external if done well is as good or better with unlimited add on storage space.
Al

 

[microstrip]

I understand that there have already been several SGM EVO Edition Servers in N America (such as Mike's).
However there is only one of it in Hong Kong, arriving at the Volent Audio on 17th Aug.(...)
IMHO the EVO Upgrade is a steal! It's nearly a must for all SGMS2015 owners.

Thanks. Just two details - what was the connection to the DAC's - USB? Was the SGM EVO Edition using HQ Player?

 

[CKKeung]

Thanks. Just two details - what was the connection to the DAC's - USB? Was the SGM EVO Edition using HQ Player?

Player software of SGMS2015 and SGM Evo Edition were HQPlayer whereas that of The Memory Player was JRiver.

The 2 SGM servers were connected to Totaldac Six dac by Westminister Lab usb cables.
The Memory Player had an AES/EBU digital output, connected to the Six by a Westminster Lab aes digital cable.
https://www.westminsterlab.com/cables

 

[microstrip]

Player software of SGMS2015 and SGM Evo Edition were HQPlayer whereas that of The Memory Player was JRiver.

The 2 SGM servers were connected to Totaldac Six dac by Westminister Lab usb cables.
The Memory Player had an AES/EBU digital output, connected to the Six by a Westminster Lab aes digital cable.
https://www.westminsterlab.com/cables

Was the HQPlayer of the SGM configured as a bit exact server or did it use its processing (transcoding, filtering or oversampling) capabilities?

 

[bibo01]

There's a bit more to fibre channel then meets the eye, the more recent (better) cards all operate at a 10Gb speed which requires your switch to run at 10Gb as well. If you need to interface to a 1Gb network this can get expensive fast.

We are mounting the Kaby Lake i7-7700K. This may strike you as a bit of an odd choice so I'll elaborate on why we chose to go with this model. We have been running this model in one of our prototype servers for probably close to 18 months. We were never planning to actually use it though and were holding for newer cpu releases hunting single pass xtr (polysinc extreme) DSD512 up sampling capability. Alas all newer releases turned out to come with a net negative sound quality, even compared to the Sky Lake i7-6700K we were using in the original SGM2015. Everything capable of doing single pass DSD512 sounded (significantly) worse then dual pass DSD512 on the 7700K, or even single pass DSD256, Intel X series, Intel i9, AMD threadripper (by far the worst but they are doing a great job driving down Intel pricing). At this point I should probably mention we do have a solution that can do this and sound good at the same time but this would almost double the SGM's retail and significantly increase its size and weight.

The reality is:
-A significant percentage of our users use PCM dacs, therefor maximum quality PCM playback, be it bit perfect or up sampling, is a priority
-The better (higher pricerange) DSD dac's only support DSD128 and/or DSD256, providing these customers with maximum sound quality is a priority
-The few owning DSD512 capable dacs, these are usually lower pricerange dacs and a level below the dac's mentioned above, have a choice of running single pass xtr-DSD256 or dual pass xtr-DSD512, this group of clients usually have the best value/performance equation, however better sound while using single pass xtr-DSD512 undermines this value/performance equation, so they're better off with our current choice aswell.

I hope this clarifies our CPU choice, being relatively affordable also allows us to cherry pick the best performing ones which again makes a larger difference then you would expect.

The highlighted above is in my plans too.

Thanks for your cpu choice explanation.

At this point I should probably mention we do have a solution that can do this and sound good at the same time but this would almost double the SGM's retail and significantly increase its size and weight.

So perhaps it is a Xeon based system

 

[Taiko Audio]

Player software of SGMS2015 and SGM Evo Edition were HQPlayer whereas that of The Memory Player was JRiver.

The 2 SGM servers were connected to Totaldac Six dac by Westminister Lab usb cables.
The Memory Player had an AES/EBU digital output, connected to the Six by a Westminster Lab aes digital cable.
https://www.westminsterlab.com/cables

Oh that’s interesting. The Totaldac is actually one of those DAC’s performing better on AES/EBU, atleast the TD-12 does. We fitted an AES/EBU output for a client who preferred his Kalista Dreamplay transport over the SGM until we added that option.

 

[Taiko Audio]

The highlighted above is in my plans too.

Thanks for your cpu choice explanation.


So perhaps it is a Xeon based system

It is.

 

[bibo01]

It is.

As a friend of Ed and Geoff, I have suggested them to try the following GentooPlayer OS. It's Gentoo based like Daphile therefore Linux which, in their view, created a compatibility problem in their customer base. The OS developed at Nexthardware.com has 64bit versions w/out GUI and for different bios types. It's not only extremely streamlined, but it can be customized on the hardware of your own system (like a tailor suit).
It has pre-installed: logitechmediaserver | networkaudiod | squeezelite | squeezelite-R2 | mpd | roon-bridge | roon-server | rtirq | pf-kernel | rt-kernel and various scripts for system configuration. You can easily install HQPlayer too.
You can simply copy the image on a 8GB usb flash disc and start up your system from there.



This is just to make a comparison on the number of active process with Snakeoil OS which is Ubuntu based and supposedly for music playback only.





You, Alrainbow or anyone else are welcomed to try it. Eventually, please report in the appropriate forum thread at NextHardware.com.

 

[cmchan]

Am new to this forum and have been reading reviews of SGM 2015. Now with EVO, would like anyone’s views of SGM compared to mid/high end CD Transports of similar price. I have a Lampi GG DAC and also considering upgrading to the new Pacific DAC.

 

[CKKeung]

Am new to this forum and have been reading reviews of SGM 2015. Now with EVO, would like anyone’s views of SGM compared to mid/high end CD Transports of similar price. I have a Lampi GG DAC and also considering upgrading to the new Pacific DAC.

My friend and I took the SGMS2015 to a frd's home and compared it to his Metronome Kalista cd transport one year ago.

Other components were Magico Q7 mk1, Robert Koda K15ex preamp, 4 Audiovalve monos for biamping, Trinity DAC, Totaldac Reclocker.

We found that they were on par.
SGMS2015 was quieter and with higher resolution.
Metronome was more musical with higher image density and richer midrange.

Interestingly, both were further improved by the Totaldac Reclocker.

 

[cmchan]

Very helpful. I’ve heard the Kalista on another system and is very good - so your comments place SGM very high. Wonder how it would sound with 512 DSD upsampling

 

[CKKeung]

Very helpful. I’ve heard the Kalista on another system and is very good - so your comments place SGM very high. Wonder how it would sound with 512 DSD upsampling

Hello cmchan,
Pacific seems to perform best with its ethernet input.
Luckily the new SGM EVO can accommodate a network output card such as JCAT Net Card Femto.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Very helpful. I’ve heard the Kalista on another system and is very good - so your comments place SGM very high. Wonder how it would sound with 512 DSD upsampling

To add an SGM EVO impression to CK's SGM2015 comparison:

The upgraded SGM/AES is definitely competitive with the Kalista Dreamplayer Transport. Quick impression: more solidity in the lower end. And that is without a platform on the SGM.

 

[CKKeung]

To add an SGM EVO impression to CK's SGM2015 comparison:
The upgraded SGM/AES is definitely competitive with the Kalista Dreamplayer Transport. Quick impression: more solidity in the lower end. And that is without a platform on the SGM.

Please refer to the photo posted on #51.

Please note that when I performed the SGMS2015 vs Kalista cd transport one year ago, the SGMS2015 was placed on the floor (no more rack space available) whereas the Kalista and its psu were placed on a SRA's top Craz Reference Rack. Haha

 

[Taiko Audio]

As a friend of Ed and Geoff, I have suggested them to try the following GentooPlayer OS.

You, Alrainbow or anyone else are welcomed to try it. Eventually, please report in the appropriate forum thread at NextHardware.com.

Will take a look but yes there are concerns as we have a number of clients who want to be able to control the software side of things themselves. I know my way around Linux but I don't think any of our clients do. This would be more suitable for a "closed" box application. We are actually looking into offering Euphony as an alternative to Windows as it's really very easy to use and they have an active support team of their own.

 

[Alrainbow]

Hello cmchan,
Pacific seems to perform best with its ethernet input.
Luckily the new SGM EVO can accommodate a network output card such as JCAT Net Card Femto.

I have read about the network interface being better than the usb from a few places. One person I know
In my setup it’s not the case by a margin. Now before you bash me I would like to know what it is you are you using ?
In windows and with the sk that is Linux it was not the case. I am not saying your wrong but do want to chase this comment down.
I have tried a few NAA Devices as well in the end usb was better but by a an obvious margin. I think SGM fine products being able to use cards is a great way to yield great results in a sever for any dac.

 

[Alrainbow]

View attachment 43489

My friend and I took the SGMS2015 to a frd's home and compared it to his Metronome Kalista cd transport one year ago.

Other components were Magico Q7 mk1, Robert Koda K15ex preamp, 4 Audiovalve monos for biamping, Trinity DAC, Totaldac Reclocker.

We found that they were on par.
SGMS2015 was quieter and with higher resolution.
Metronome was more musical with higher image density and richer midrange.

Interestingly, both were further improved by the Totaldac Reclocker.

I had your dac transport setup but also had the diamond psu for the dac alone and your sig transport psu for the umt plus
Have you tried it as a server to your dacs. Post results if so.
A reclocker does improveme the sound on servers I am looking into why not all do for all dacs either and some older ones I have kill it now but ona lesser server it’s an improvement. I am getting a new reclocker to try that is very promising it is a usb to usb and other outputs as well. What output did you use to reach your conclusion?
Does the transport you tried upsample as well. The SGM is the best at on the fly upsample I know of and while I don’t upsample as a whole I know many do and love it. For this reason I feel there’s little to none at the level of the SGM. It’s very kind of them to be here and give such detailed transparency that none do.

 

[CKKeung]

I have read about the network interface being better than the usb from a few places. One person I know
In my setup it’s not the case by a margin. Now before you bash me I would like to know what it is you are you using ?
In windows and with the sk that is Linux it was not the case. I am not saying your wrong but do want to chase this comment down.
I have tried a few NAA Devices as well in the end usb was better but by a an obvious margin. I think SGM fine products being able to use cards is a great way to yield great results in a sever for any dac.

Hello Alrainbow,
You notice I had used the word "seems"?
There are 2 Pacific DACs in Hong Kong currently and I visited only one of them.
It's the comment from the Pacific owner. He is waiting to upgrade his SGMS2015 to EVO Edition to pair with Pacific via ethernet connection.
When the upgrade is done and his EVO Edition has got ethernet+usb+spdif outputs, I will visit him again and see which of them will perform best with his Pacific.
Shall update all of you here for sure.

 

[CKKeung]

I had your dac transport setup but also had the diamond psu for the dac alone and your sig transport psu for the umt plus
Have you tried it as a server to your dacs. Post results if so.
A reclocker does improveme the sound on servers I am looking into why not all do for all dacs either and some older ones I have kill it now but ona lesser server it’s an improvement. I am getting a new reclocker to try that is very promising it is a usb to usb and other outputs as well. What output did you use to reach your conclusion?
Does the transport you tried upsample as well. The SGM is the best at on the fly upsample I know of and while I don’t upsample as a whole I know many do and love it. For this reason I feel there’s little to none at the level of the SGM. It’s very kind of them to be here and give such detailed transparency that none do.

When I performed the comparison of SGMS2015 vs Kalista at my frd's home with the Totaldac Reclocker put between them and the Trinity Dac, the connections were :
Kalista cd transport > Odin2 aes digital cable > Totaldac Reclocker > Odin2 aes digital cable > Trinity DAC
SGMS2015 > Skogrand Beethoven usb cable > Totaldac Reclocker > Trinity DAC
I don't like upsampling except via HQPlayer so the Kalista cd transport was not set to upsampling.
The SGMS2015 was set to output 24/176.4 at that time.

BTW May I know what's the reclocker which has both usb-to-usb and other outputs you are interested in?