The 1st SGM Server EVO Edition in Hong Kong

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My friend and I took the SGMS2015 to a frd's home and compared it to his Metronome Kalista cd transport one year ago.

Other components were Magico Q7 mk1, Robert Koda K15ex preamp, 4 Audiovalve monos for biamping, Trinity DAC, Totaldac Reclocker.

We found that they were on par.
SGMS2015 was quieter and with higher resolution.
Metronome was more musical with higher image density and richer midrange.

Interestingly, both were further improved by the Totaldac Reclocker.

As far as I see it seems to me the shown Metronome is a Calypso Reference, not a Kalista - I am looking at one of them now.

I can easily agree with your comment, except that subjectively for me a when someone says " more musical with higher image density and richer midrange" there is a clear winner ...

 

[Alrainbow]

Yes seems
but still I want to know what’s the OS used for the network sever it’s a simple question and not meant to be offensive. I spend time trying many ways to get better digital as such want to know please.
Thanks in advance

 

[Alrainbow]

As a friend of Ed and Geoff, I have suggested them to try the following GentooPlayer OS. It's Gentoo based like Daphile therefore Linux which, in their view, created a compatibility problem in their customer base. The OS developed at Nexthardware.com has 64bit versions w/out GUI and for different bios types. It's not only extremely streamlined, but it can be customized on the hardware of your own system (like a tailor suit).
It has pre-installed: logitechmediaserver | networkaudiod | squeezelite | squeezelite-R2 | mpd | roon-bridge | roon-server | rtirq | pf-kernel | rt-kernel and various scripts for system configuration. You can easily install HQPlayer too.
You can simply copy the image on a 8GB usb flash disc and start up your system from there.

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This is just to make a comparison on the number of active process with Snakeoil OS which is Ubuntu based and supposedly for music playback only.

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You, Alrainbow or anyone else are welcomed to try it. Eventually, please report in the appropriate forum thread at NextHardware.com.

Going to give this a try

 

[microstrip]

(...) Luckily the new SGM EVO can accommodate a network output card such as JCAT Net Card Femto.

Altough I like this idea, it also puzzles me - doesn't the JCAT Net Card Femto firmware and hardware gain control of the PCI bus /network interface? I would expect SGM to have their own proprietary internet interface.

 

[CKKeung]

As far as I see it seems to me the shown Metronome is a Calypso Reference, not a Kalista - I am looking at one of them now.
I can easily agree with your comment, except that subjectively for me a when someone says " more musical with higher image density and richer midrange" there is a clear winner ...

Yes, maybe it was a Calypso. I am not good at differentiating the various Metronome transport models. Thanks!

A clear winner? I don't think so. The SGMS2015 was obviously ahead in term of quietness & resolution so much so that the attendants of the gathering divided into 2 groups with diff verdicts.

 

[microstrip]

(...) A clear winner? I don't think so. The SGMS2015 was obviously ahead in term of quietness & resolution so much so that the attendants of the gathering divided into 2 groups with diff verdicts.

Surely - it is why I explicitly wrote " subjectively for me"

The good thing of the DCS Vivaldi transport is that IMHO it manages to combine the higher image density and richer midrange of the Calypso with the bass and resolution of the server.

 

[CKKeung]

Yes seems
but still I want to know what’s the OS used for the network sever it’s a simple question and not meant to be offensive. I spend time trying many ways to get better digital as such want to know please.
Thanks in advance

The Pacific was not connected via its ethernet input at that time.
My friend was using a Wadax Atlantis combo (Server+Transport+DAC) but there was network connection hiccough in his room with Pacific and only connection via usb was stable.
I am not sure what the OS inside Wadax Server is.
That's why he wanted to have the EVO Edition and pair it with the Pacific.

 

[Alrainbow]

Ty for the reply

 

[Taiko Audio]

I have read about the network interface being better than the usb from a few places. One person I know
In my setup it’s not the case by a margin. Now before you bash me I would like to know what it is you are you using ?
In windows and with the sk that is Linux it was not the case. I am not saying your wrong but do want to chase this comment down.
I have tried a few NAA Devices as well in the end usb was better but by a an obvious margin. I think SGM fine products being able to use cards is a great way to yield great results in a sever for any dac.

We have tried using one SGM as a "transport" and another as a roon endpoint or hqplayer naa, in both cases a single SGM doing all the work was clearly better. I guess the outcome of this depends of the quality of the endpoint versus the transport.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Altough I like this idea, it also puzzles me - doesn't the JCAT Net Card Femto firmware and hardware gain control of the PCI bus /network interface? I would expect SGM to have their own proprietary internet interface.

The idea here would be having additional networking ports, enabling the creation of a separate subnet for the transport to endpoint interface. It would also reduce cable clutter and possible elimination of a switch.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Hello Alrainbow,
You notice I had used the word "seems"?
There are 2 Pacific DACs in Hong Kong currently and I visited only one of them.
It's the comment from the Pacific owner. He is waiting to upgrade his SGMS2015 to EVO Edition to pair with Pacific via ethernet connection.
When the upgrade is done and his EVO Edition has got ethernet+usb+spdif outputs, I will visit him again and see which of them will perform best with his Pacific.
Shall update all of you here for sure.

I am really looking forward to that comparison!

 

[Taiko Audio]

Surely - it is why I explicitly wrote " subjectively for me"

The good thing of the DCS Vivaldi transport is that IMHO it manages to combine the higher image density and richer midrange of the Calypso with the bass and resolution of the server.

It may have gone unnoticed that this comparison was made with the "old" original SGM2015 which has now been succeeded by the topic of this thread, the SGM EVO edition. Image density and richer midrange are 2 area's which have been significantly improved. I'll repeat a more recent observation from one of our clients (not CK's friend) posted earlier in the thread: "The upgraded SGM/AES is definitely competitive with the Kalista Dreamplayer Transport. Quick impression: more solidity in the lower end. And that is without a platform on the SGM."

 

[Alrainbow]

We have tried using one SGM as a "transport" and another as a roon endpoint or hqplayer naa, in both cases a single SGM doing all the work was clearly better. I guess the outcome of this depends of the quality of the endpoint versus the transport.

Very interesting outcome. And I don’t doubt your observation ty for then reply

 

[cmchan]

It may have gone unnoticed that this comparison was made with the "old" original SGM2015 which has now been succeeded by the topic of this thread, the SGM EVO edition. Image density and richer midrange are 2 area's which have been significantly improved. I'll repeat a more recent observation from one of our clients (not CK's friend) posted earlier in the thread: "The upgraded SGM/AES is definitely competitive with the Kalista Dreamplayer Transport. Quick impression: more solidity in the lower end. And that is without a platform on the SGM."

For the SGM EVO with Lampi Pacific - what are your views of AES compared to USB with/without upsampling?

 

[EuroDriver]

For the SGM EVO with Lampi Pacific - what are your views of AES compared to USB with/without upsampling?

We can only extrapolate from our observations with a SGM Evo feeding a Lampi GG which had both the R2R PCM modules and the DSD 512 module, and also relate to our experiences with PCM DAC's and the SGM Evo

A few take aways

- PCM to PCM upsampling can work very well when the quality of the rips is high or when you are streaming from a good source. Poor rips do not upsample well, a majority of listeners prefer the original to a upsampled version when the rip is not "pristine"

- for PCM to PCM upsampling, provided the rip is good, the higher the upsampling, the better it sounds

- for PCM to DSD upsampling the sweet spot is currently DSD 256 using HQ Player's XTR filter. HQ Player's XTR-2s at DSD 512 which is computationally much lighter, does not sound as rich and full as the XTR at DSD 256

Lampi Pacific has the "57" engine which can handle PCM up to 705 KHz and DSD upto 512. AES/BEU is limited 192, the LAN is limited to 352 KHz on PCM, but the full DSD 512, the USB can do full rate PCM and DSD without limitations

So my expectations are

- for so-so rips, AES/BEU with no umpsampling will likely sound best

- for good rips and streaming from TIDAL, upsampling to 705 KHz and sending over USB will sound the best assuming that the USB is as good if not better than the one on the GG

The good news is that the SGM brings its sonics to the table regardless of whether SPDIF, AES/BEU, LAN or USB is being used. The RF being emitted by computing devices get everywhere, there is no stopping RF in the MHz and GHz range.

Managing this RF through better components, many custom components and clever chassis design is what the allows the SGM Evo to deliver audibly and significantly better sonics than the SGM 2015.

Sorry for the long reply, but what Emile has achieved in the last 12 months is nothing short of amazing !

 

[CKKeung]

Hello Edward and Emile,

I guess for EVO Edition customers who want to install RME or Lynx cards for their aes digital outputs, you must have plans to bring their onboard leads out and install an aes output connector on the copper inlay backplate.

It's because the breakout cables of RME/Lynx can be a limiting factor of the performance of EVO Edition.

Thanks!

CK

 

[EuroDriver]

Hello Edward and Emile,

I guess for EVO Edition customers who want to install RME or Lynx cards for their aes digital outputs, you must have plans to bring their onboard leads out and install an aes output connector on the copper inlay backplate.

It's because the breakout cables of RME/Lynx can be a limiting factor of the performance of EVO Edition.

Thanks!

CK

Indeed there are not many choices for breakout cable.

As an alternative to mounting AES output connectors to the backplate of the EVO, building a custom breakout box could be a possibility. Interesting to note that RME's own breakout box is no longer in production

 

[Taiko Audio]

Hello Edward and Emile,

I guess for EVO Edition customers who want to install RME or Lynx cards for their aes digital outputs, you must have plans to bring their onboard leads out and install an aes output connector on the copper inlay backplate.

It's because the breakout cables of RME/Lynx can be a limiting factor of the performance of EVO Edition.

Thanks!

CK

We do include a very high quality custom made breakout cable. HD26 to single XLR for Lynx, DB25 to single or dual XLR for RME. Personally I feel this is the best way to go.

 

[Sablon Audio]

W- for PCM to DSD upsampling the sweet spot is currently DSD 256 using HQ Player's XTR filter. HQ Player's XTR-2s at DSD 512 which is computationally much lighter, does not sound as rich and full as the XTR at DSD 256

I can vouch for what Ed says here and even found the XTR filter noticeably better (denser) sounding at double / 128 speed DSD than the abbreviated octuple / 512 filter option. This is good news for many systems since few dacs are 512 enabled and I can well imagine the EVO will sound a fair bit better at 256XTR given the further enhancements from which it benefits.

 

[moby2004]

On the software side,is it still possible not to use Roon ? (as I have a Qobuz account) If I remember correctly SGM2015 could be used with another software than Roon.

Alex