The Bass is the place!!

[Rodney Gold]

Frantz , before I got my G1's I messed around with ls50's and multiple subs.. could never get to the scale of sound the g1's produce (or at the time , the scale of my Meridian dsp6000's ) .. granted I play at elevated levels and the LS50's , despite being crossed over at 90 hz or so could really just not handle the spl's I wanted without compression etc.

 

[FrantzM]

Frantz, this is exactly why you don't understand where I'm coming from - in my world, all speakers sound like "larger speakers", I'm not interested in the sound unless that happens. And why that "trick" happens is because the quality of the sound coming from the "mini-monitors" is adequate - if it's not then, yes, it just sounds like a small, a very small speaker ...

The thing is Frank, I am not alone when it comes to not understanding .

 

[NorthStar]

And in comparison to a full range speaker (listen to the full scale size of the piano - the music is near the end of the video @ 8:50):

 

[fas42]

Sorry, Bob, if you think the sound in the last video with the Wilson speakers is good, then you're way off the mark - the piano sound is poor, it lacks treble and clarity and transient definition - no-one listening to this video would ever mistake that for a real piano. Might be nice as background filler, but that's about all.

Why small speakers sound large is because they become a window as big as needed to the soundscape encoded in the recording, when the system works well. Which is a giveaway to the quality of the playback: recording has big sound, but playback over physically small speaker sounds small - it's a fail, I'm afraid. My first competent system used bottom of the line B&W bookshelfs, but they threw up a mammoth soundstage when the recording called for it; the actual size of the speaker carcase is totally irrelevant, it's only big because getting good bass response usually requires it.

 

[NorthStar]

Yes, it's tough from a youtube video and through a laptop's speaker; I would have to be in that room in person to fully hear the impact of that piano.
...In comparison to a smaller two-way monitor speaker, in that same room, and supplemented by two subwoofers. Because without there is something fundamental that is missing, I believe, very.

Frank, if the choice and magic suitcase was given to me; I'd take the full range speaker from Rockport, Magico, Wilson, Revel, Sonus Faber, Martin Logan, Vivid, Genesis, KEF, B&W anytime over their smaller two-way monitors on stands or flanking my screen's tabletop computer monitor. ...Anytime. If you're a gamer get on with the big boys.
And with two or more quality subwoofers, I'd still match them with the full range speakers than the monitors. ...X-over @ around between 35 and 45Hz...depending...room...experiment...measurement s...positioning...blending...listening...reading the audiophile's experiences...Mike...Rodney...Jack...and all the other high caliber WBF members with vast experience and knowledge.
...No Aiwa or Panasonic speakers type here. ...And no Sanyo or Sansui turntables either. ...And no Sony or Pioneer subwoofers.

...Bass is the place.

 

[andromedaaudio]

After having more or less finished my loudspeaker design with the choice of the ringradiator .

I ll explain my view /expirience of having a real accurate non resonant full range system , adding the 40- 50 hz until around 20 with no real degradation in SPL ( although bassspeakers in a fullrange system have output at much higher freq as well )
First those 40 hz are far more important then the 20 kHz above 20 -25 kHz , as they will gave you scale and improved dynamics by expanding the bandwith downunder
A good full range system is able to render like a monitor and explode with a cresendo of an orchestra , its an expirience far beyond the limited monitor expirience , when you get used to it its hard or impossible to go back .
Its not easy to get right , it definetively costs money on size/ material and so on but its the real deal, it makes it an expirience instead of just listening

 

[NorthStar]

Am I wrong saying this: A well balanced bass in your room will give you a superior midrange. ...Better vocals, clearer guitars trumpets sax piano and violins. ...More sex?

 

[fas42]

Bob, you are wrong ... very low bass just produces a rumble, with zero character to it - people should try playing a favourite recording with plenty of bass where all frequencies above 100Hz are excised from it! It will be one long, monotonous, meaningless drone, with zero entertainment value ...

Bass works when it has guts to it, a booming gurgle is not particularly inspiring - and it's the midrange working well that makes for intense "bass" impact - not the other way around.

The sex bit I'll leave to others to explore ...

 

[GaryProtein]

Bob, you are wrong ... very low bass just produces a rumble, with zero character to it - people should try playing a favourite recording with plenty of bass where all frequencies above 100Hz are excised from it! It will be one long, monotonous, meaningless drone, with zero entertainment value ...

Bass works when it has guts to it, a booming gurgle is not particularly inspiring - and it's the midrange working well that makes for intense "bass" impact - not the other way around.

The sex bit I'll leave to others to explore ...

If you excise all the frequencies above 100Hz, you will ONLY have one monotonous drone if you have severe standing wave modes in your room.

If the music is exciting and the bass has pounding impact, the sex will too.

 

[fas42]

Many moons ago I "got" that the impact from the bass content was about having integrity in the sound picture, overall competence was king - and have never worried about the size of my drivers since ...

Awful or mediocre bass impact, from monster speakers or subwoofers, has never worked its 'magic' on me; but a small bookshelf projecting a superb Jack Bruce effort, cutting through the mix brilliantly, has me bouncing around the room ... whatever floats your ...

 

[NorthStar]

Frank, I said well balanced bass. ...Meaning well executed, equalized, and in a well acoustically treated room.

 

[fas42]

So, Bob, if someone brought his double bass instrument into my completely untreated lounge, and started playing that, it would sound pretty ordinary ...

 

[sleepysurf]

If you excise all the frequencies above 100Hz, you will ONLY have one monotonous drone if you have severe standing wave modes in your room...

Somebody needs to devise a sub 100 Hz MUSICAL test track (not just a series of tones) for bass demo/testing purposes!

I've done a "poor man's" version of that by playing bass-heavy tracks (such as Béla Fleck's Flight of the Cosmic Hippo) solely through my subs.

 

[DaveyF]

Somebody needs to devise a sub 100 Hz MUSICAL test track (not just a series of tones) for bass demo/testing purposes!
.

That's an excellent idea. I think there would be many systems that would fall flat on their face with that test!

 

[GaryProtein]

Somebody needs to devise a sub 100 Hz MUSICAL test track (not just a series of tones) for bass demo/testing purposes!

I've done a "poor man's" version of that by playing bass-heavy tracks (such as Béla Fleck's Flight of the Cosmic Hippo) solely through my subs.

THAT WORKS.

What did you find?

 

[sleepysurf]

THAT WORKS.

What did you find?

Overall pretty good, and fairly musical to my ears. Of note, the ML BalancedForce subs have a built-in 20 - 120 Hz sweep tone to help identify frequency specific rattles/resonances in the room. However, it's also a great test of the overall uniformity of the sub/room bass response. When running the sweep, I can hear a mild residual null at ~50-60 Hz, which I've confirmed with my XTZ Room Analyzer. However, it's only down about 3-4 dB (was -10 dB before I added a 2nd sub).

 

[Anubis]

Guys, try this album om for bass quality and depth:

The song Eflephants on Ice/skates or whats it called...

And from the same artist the album Jaco and the song Teen town.
You`ll find the albums on Tidal Hifi and Spotify.

 

[NorthStar]

So, Bob, if someone brought his double bass instrument into my completely untreated lounge, and started playing that, it would sound pretty ordinary ...

It depends...how high is your ceiling?

 

[NorthStar]

...Some powerful bass in this too:

Bass is the place, girls love bass.

 

[NorthStar]

Or if you prefer a different music genre: