The end of the CD

[853guy]

“I see the end of CD.”

“I see a burgeoning second-hand market and a fat-tailed renaissance ala vinyl, reel-to-reel and cassette.”

--

“I see servers as offering greater sound quality and ease of use.”

“I see servers as creating more EMI/RFI and needless complexity.”

--

“I see digitising vinyl as the best way to ameliorate the poor signal-to-noise ratio of vinyl playback.”

“I see digitising vinyl as an unnecessary step of experiencing an analog waveform in which you’re also listening to an AD converter's power supply, quantization error, a software program’s sonic signature, and a DA converter, including a bunch of analog, digital and power cables.”

--

“I see active platforms as the only way to experience a component at its best.”

“I see active platforms as introducing two additional variables; its (in)ability to deal with both internally- and externally-generated vibration, and a power supply dumping noise back into the system.”

--



Be well, gents.

853guy

 

[microstrip]

Guys I really don't need to add a smiley do I

No. Even with a smile we would not believe you were joking ...

 

[Empirical Audio]

“I see the end of CD.”

“I see a burgeoning second-hand market and a fat-tailed renaissance ala vinyl, reel-to-reel and cassette.”

--

“I see servers as offering greater sound quality and ease of use.”

“I see servers as creating more EMI/RFI and needless complexity.”

--

“I see digitising vinyl as the best way to ameliorate the poor signal-to-noise ratio of vinyl playback.”

“I see digitising vinyl as an unnecessary step of experiencing an analog waveform in which you’re also listening to an AD converter's power supply, quantization error, a software program’s sonic signature, and a DA converter, including a bunch of analog, digital and power cables.”

--

“I see active platforms as the only way to experience a component at its best.”

“I see active platforms as introducing two additional variables; its (in)ability to deal with both internally- and externally-generated vibration, and a power supply dumping noise back into the system.”

--

View attachment 38577

Be well, gents.

853guy

Opinions are like a##h$$$s, everyone has one. Online it is very difficult to know who to trust and who is an expert. A lot like reading Russian bot posts on Twitter or Facebook. There is such a thing as too much communication I think, particularly from unknowns. It's become a world of non-experts, ignorants and the businesses/states that try to influence them through propaganda, but I digress...

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[ddk]

I can tell you I have zero expectations (or any desire for a particular result) for any change in David's perspectives. but also open to any possibility.

we will go where the music leads us. maybe more tape than digital I expect.

. Exactly my thoughts Mike, set up the tonearms, sit back and listen. Of course tape is always welcome along with some of that fine whisky of yours!

david

 

[853guy]

Opinions are like a##h$$$s, everyone has one. Online it is very difficult to know who to trust and who is an expert. A lot like reading Russian bot posts on Twitter or Facebook. There is such a thing as too much communication I think, particularly from unknowns. It's become a world of non-experts, ignorants and the businesses/states that try to influence them through propaganda, but I digress...

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Posted this before, but worth posting again I think.




Also, good to keep this in mind apropos online "discussions".



Best,

853guy

 

[Empirical Audio]

Posted this before, but worth posting again I think.

View attachment 38592


Also, good to keep this in mind apropos online "discussions".

View attachment 38593

Best,

853guy

I don't believe it's possible to be an "expert" in economics unless maybe you are an expert in human nature and have a crystal ball. It's mostly a crap-shoot based on the basest of human emotions, the lizard brain.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Al M.]

No. Even with a smile we would not believe you were joking ...

Hehe, true.

 

[853guy]

I don't believe it's possible to be an "expert" in economics unless maybe you are an expert in human nature and have a crystal ball. It's mostly a crap-shoot based on the basest of human emotions, the lizard brain.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Hi Steve,

Personally, I don't believe it's possible to be an "expert" at anything. Only a student whose knowledge is dwarfed by what one does not know.

Best,

853guy

 

[Empirical Audio]

Hi Steve,

Personally, I don't believe it's possible to be an "expert" at anything. Only a student whose knowledge is dwarfed by what one does not know.

Best,

853guy

This is a great learning moment, particularly for those with big egos.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Al M.]

Servers aren't new and there's been continuous claims of greatness almost every week for over a decade down to audiophile priced usb wires but suddenly everyone hears what's wrong and usb is dead, long live ethernet.

Good catch. It's quite ironic isn't it?

 

[853guy]

Servers aren't new and there's been continuous claims of greatness almost every week for over a decade down to audiophile priced usb wires but suddenly everyone hears what's wrong and usb is dead, long live ethernet.

Good catch. It's quite ironic isn't it?

Hi Al,

I think it's probably true to say we overemphasise whatever we learned last. In an area of rapid technological development, it's fairly normal for every new iteration to be claimed superior over its predecessor. Such is progress.

Best,

853guy

 

[Al M.]

Hi Al,

I think it's probably true to say we overemphasise whatever we learned last. In an area of rapid technological development, it's fairly normal for every new iteration to be claimed superior over its predecessor. Such is progress.

Best,

853guy

If it's real progress that is. Even in the times when USB was the generally preferred choice for computer audio there were many who claimed that any file playback beats a spinning CD. Yeah right.

Again, I am not disputing that computer audio can perhaps be stellar, but above opinion just was never true, and still isn't.

 

[ddk]

Hi Al,

I think it's probably true to say we overemphasise whatever we learned last. In an area of rapid technological development, it's fairly normal for every new iteration to be claimed superior over its predecessor. Such is progress.

Best,

853guy

That's what we call HYPE, not progress and not everyone falls for it.

david

 

[microstrip]

(...) Don't think that I have some kind of existential belief against computer audio (that's received for analog vs. digital !) because I don't, just haven't heard one that works right.

david

It is curious that the DACs used to drive the cutter heads of most current vinyl LPs are fed by computer audio. And many people love these records.

 

[microstrip]

If it's real progress that is. Even in the times when USB was the generally preferred choice for computer audio there were many who claimed that any file playback beats a spinning CD. Yeah right.

Again, I am not disputing that computer audio can perhaps be stellar, but above opinion just was never true, and still isn't.

IMHO most of them just they claimed it was equal, as the content of both was bit perfect.

 

[853guy]

If it's real progress that is. Even in the times when USB was the generally preferred choice for computer audio there were many who claimed that any file playback beats a spinning CD. Yeah right.

Again, I am not disputing that computer audio can perhaps be stellar, but above opinion just was never true, and still isn't.

And again, the reason I posted the image in post #201 is that opinions will generally be the result of the position one takes in viewing the "truth".

That's what we call HYPE, not progress and not everyone falls for it.

david

Does that solely apply to products of a digital nature, or are 550-pound steel turntables potentially subject to the same?

Again, perspective is likely to determine how we articulate "the truth".

Best to you both,

853guy

 

[Al M.]

IMHO most of them just they claimed it was equal, as the content of both was bit perfect.

Not exactly. I remember it as, transport has jitter, computer doesn't, case closed. Very simple. Too simple -- simplistic.

Of course, RF noise was rarely on the radar in those early times of computer audio. Very much like in CD's "Perfect Sound Forever", where jitter wasn't on most digital engineers' radar. The importance of it was established later, as far as I know.

 

[microstrip]

I remember it as, transport has jitter, computer doesn't, case closed.

Of course, RF noise was rarely on the radar in those early times of computer audio. Very much like in CD's "Perfect Sound Forever", where jitter wasn't on most digital engineers' radar. The importance of it was established later, as far as I know.

But any competently designed DAC was immune to jitter ... And jitter bellow 1 ns was not audible ...

Anyway, I consider that some transports sound better because they have characteristic sound signatures, like the best analog.

 

[ddk]

And again, the reason I posted the image in post #201 is that opinions will generally be the result of the position one takes in viewing the "truth".


Does that solely apply to products of a digital nature, or are 550-pound steel turntables potentially subject to the same?

Again, perspective is likely to determine how we articulate "the truth".

Best to you both,

853guy

removed, inappropriate language. Other green segments in this post removed for same reason)! This is the most ***argument you've put forward yet nameless 853guy, and there have been many recently! Perspective is yours to change, "Truth" isn't! Unless of course one is a ***! Then again you already posted your declaration of *** with this comment.

"In an area of rapid technological development, it's fairly normal for every new iteration to be claimed superior over its predecessor. Such is progress."

If you have the experience and the insight I'll be happy to discuss the validity of 50 - 70 year old turntable designs and listen to your arguments against them.
david

 

[ddk]

It is curious that the DACs used to drive the cutter heads of most current vinyl LPs are fed by computer audio. And many people love these records.

We're not arguing against people loving something Francisco, digital or otherwise. The argument is for the differences between the same digital file played back off a production CD in a good transport vs the same file played from a computer. Technically the DAC is seeing the same digits and doing the same conversion in both cases but we know that they sound different, hence preference for one over the other.

david