The source is in the speaker!

[puroagave]

...Meridian has been a pioneer of active speakers since their start almost 40 years ago, and curiously is systematically ignored by the more prominent active speakers promoters. The world’s first speaker using Digital Signal Processing – the DSP6000 was built in 1990, and yes, I have owned them and they did not sound good to me. Should we remember that they also produced the first audiophile CD player and that Bob Stuart was an active enthusiast of Hi-Rez formats, denouncing the CD limitations?

I had a loaner pair of DSP5000's and thought they were very good and could live happily ever after with them, it was around the mid '90s when I was getting out of the hobby and downsizing. at the time it definitely felt like the future but active systems/DSP has been very slow to catch fire. I still watch the classifieds for a clean pair of Meridian M2's - what a cool little speaker.

 

[microstrip]

I had a loaner pair of DSP5000s and thought they were very good and could live happily ever after with them, it was around the mid '90s when I was getting out of the hobby and downsizing. at the time it definitely felt like the future but active systems/DSP has been very slow to catch fire. I still watch the classifieds for a clean pair of Meridian M2s - what cool little speaker.

I recently helped a friend getting an old pair of M2 that have been my fist Meridian's being serviced - they only needed new electrolytic capacitors. In Europe they are easy to get at decent prices - I still have a nice pair of rosewood M60mk2 and never managed to find someone wanting them.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Finally read the details. (Do people really want to sit through a movie?)

Looks, to me, very much like the Meridian principles in different packages. Analog/digital inputs all digitized. Stereo streaming (and no DSD). RJ-45 links (SpeakerLink ~ ExaktLink). And, of course, multiamped digital speakers with filters/EQ.

Also, like the Meridian, it is not an open system and too restrictive even if it sounds great. I have nothing against it, in principle, but, as we move to more and more DSP and more formats, I become more convinced that, for me, the solution is not in such restricting integrated packages.

(Disclosure: I own a Meridian 861v8 and I love it but it is only one of the parallel paths in my system.)

 

[DaveyF]

Finally read the details. (Do people really want to sit through a movie?)


(Disclosure: I own a Meridian 861v8 and I love it but it is only one of the parallel paths in my system.)

Kal, the first "movie" runs two (2) minutes and the second "movie" runs three (3) minutes! I thought they (Linn) were doing a fairly good job of explaining where they are coming from.
Since it's not an open system, I would think that could be a plus IF ( BIG IF) it sounds better than an open system would sound. ( less chance for the mix and matcher to screw up the sound).
OTOH, as a'philes, I do agree that having no "upgrade" path would be a detriment to me as well. Although, knowing Linn ( and I think I do know their philosophy a little) an "upgrade" path is
DEFINITELY NOT something they are going to discount, LOL.

 

[hvbias]

I loved the turntable that had the record spinning off-center. Was that supposed to represent their LP-12?

Someone must have been wearing a wrist watch in the room that didn't agree with that LP12

 

[MylesBAstor]

Kal, the first "movie" runs two (2) minutes and the second "movie" runs three (3) minutes! I thought they (Linn) were doing a fairly good job of explaining where they are coming from.
Since it's not an open system, I would think that could be a plus IF ( BIG IF) it sounds better than an open system would sound. ( less chance for the mix and matcher to screw up the sound).
OTOH, as a'philes, I do agree that having no "upgrade" path would be a detriment to me as well. Although, knowing Linn ( and I think I do know their philosophy a little) an "upgrade" path is
DEFINITELY NOT something they are going to discount, LOL.

IMHO the vids did nothing to help most people understand the system I went through both and struggled to figure out exactly what they were doing. You know what they say about baffling....

 

[audioarcher]

Yeah it still looks like they have a source feeding the speaker in the video's. No actual technical information at all. The videos look like something you would show to a young child to explain whats going on. I guess they don't have much respect for their customers intelligence.

 

[mep]

IMHO the vids did nothing to help most people understand the system I went through both and struggled to figure out exactly what they were doing.you know what they say about baffling....

Let's face it, those videos was made for people who know nothing about audio. Linn tried to use a simplistic cartoon approach to show people the "bad old stereo systems" and compare them to their new high tech wonder system in an attempt to convince people their new system would sound much better than whatever they are currently listening to. Funny that a company that just made and sold some $40K turntables complete with a bottle of booze would have a cartoon making fun of a turntable by having the record turning off center. That tells me they are not marketing the Linn faithful. They are chasing new customers they hope to indoctrinate and convert to the Linn cult.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I've never ever said this before Tim but man, I'm really starting to think you really haven't heard what a really good analog rig playing a really pristine LP can do. It can be plenty sharp man and plenty tight and deep too. I just wonder where you got the idea that analog enthusiasts have this universal thing for whatever you describe us as preferring. It might look like it because carts can sound so different but DACs sound different too. It's not like digital enthusiasts are arguing over which of their DACs is more Hi-Fidelity. Like everybody else, analog or digital they too are going for what works best for them/what they like.

I have, actually, and it can sound very good, but it definitely has a sound. An additive sound. A sound that is of the medium, not of the recording. A sound often described by its proponents as, among other things, a sense of spaciousness. Not sure I completely agree with that description, but I can hear what they're talking about and understand how they got there. In spite of hearing it, I still firmly believe that it is added by the media, not native to the recording.

You think perhaps I've never heard a good turntable rig; I think people who believe vinyl sounds more like the master tape than even a redbook file of the same master, are living in Colorado and smoking a lot of legal. People who think it sounds "more detailed?" I think they're smoking something substantially stronger. YMMV of course.

Tim

 

[JackD201]

Make that 24/96 or DSD vs a late pressing on poor vinyl and I might agree with you my friend but 16/44.......

and oh, no, I don't do pot. I'm pretty square in that regard. Not that my brown liquors are much healthier.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I have, actually, and it can sound very good, but it definitely has a sound. An additive sound. A sound that is of the medium, not of the recording. A sound often described by its proponents as, among other things, a sense of spaciousness. Not sure I completely agree with that description, but I can hear what they're talking about and understand how they got there. In spite of hearing it, I still firmly believe that it is added by the media, not native to the recording.

You think perhaps I've never heard a good turntable rig; I think people who believe vinyl sounds more like the master tape than even a redbook file of the same master, are living in Colorado and smoking a lot of legal. People who think it sounds "more detailed?" I think they're smoking something substantially stronger. YMMV of course.

(that's what I learned to say in finishing school).

There's nothing additive because those qualities are present on the hard drive or master tape. But of course you've done the comparison master or second gen tape vs LP haven't you Tim? Or master tape vs digitized copy right? Please be specific.

You keep telling us about this magical turntable you once heard or were you tripping? Obviously what you think and what most analog devotees think is a top front-end are two different things. Or this table wasn't set up properly.

 

[mep]

(that's what I learned to say in finishing school).

There's nothing additive because those qualities are present on the hard drive or master tape. But of course you've done the comparison master or second gen tape vs LP haven't you Tim? Or master tape vs digitized copy right? Please be specific.

You keep telling us about this magical turntable you once heard or were you tripping?

If I remember correctly, someone Tim knows has a high quality LP setup, but Tim can't seem to remember the particulars of what table, what arm, what cartridge, and what phono stage.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

If I remember correctly, someone Tim knows has a high quality LP setup, but Tim can't seem to remember the particulars of what table, what arm, what cartridge, and what phono stage.

There are a couple of them, actually, and I've listed the tables before. I don't remember what they are. I don't know what the carts are. I know one of these guys is very into it and the other is pretty OCD. Have they made choices you'd consider good enough? I have no idea and couldn't care less. They've made careful choices and they love their vinyl, that I'm sure of.

And really, that's not what this is about. I'm not saying vinyl sounds bad. It isn't my preference but nobody but me should care about that. I am saying that vinyl has a sound of its own, and at least a part of that sound is native to the process of creating and playing the vinyl. Is anyone here actually arguing with that? Really?

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Make that 24/96 or DSD vs a late pressing on poor vinyl and I might agree with you my friend but 16/44.......

and oh, no, I don't do pot. I'm pretty square in that regard. Not that my brown liquors are much healthier.

Your brown liquors might be less healthy, but they're gooooooood.

Tim

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal, the first "movie" runs two (2) minutes and the second "movie" runs three (3) minutes! I thought they (Linn) were doing a fairly good job of explaining where they are coming from.
Since it's not an open system, I would think that could be a plus IF ( BIG IF) it sounds better than an open system would sound. ( less chance for the mix and matcher to screw up the sound).
OTOH, as a'philes, I do agree that having no "upgrade" path would be a detriment to me as well. Although, knowing Linn ( and I think I do know their philosophy a little) an "upgrade" path is
DEFINITELY NOT something they are going to discount, LOL.

IMHO the vids did nothing to help most people understand the system I went through both and struggled to figure out exactly what they were doing. You know what they say about baffling....

I have little to no patience for "movies" but like to read clear statements and data where I can determine the thread of study.

I do get your point about the potential for reduced problems and the possibility of better performance but upgrades and enhancements are promises, at best. Believe me, I was sorely tempted by the Meridian/Sooloos system a couple of years back but hesitated because I could not be certain if the upgrades and enhancements would be the ones I wanted. They were not but I found ways to enjoy them by taking a more hands-on route.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

There's nothing additive because those qualities are present on the hard drive or master tape. But of course you've done the comparison master or second gen tape vs LP haven't you Tim? Or master tape vs digitized copy right? Please be specific.

Well I guess I've got my answer. Hard to imagine that you're serious, but I've got my answer. There's nothing additive about vinyl? It is transparent to the master? You are aware of the production process, I assume? All the specifics anyone should ever need are there. Again, none of this is to say it doesn't sound good...good enough for you to prefer, adore, defend to the death. But if you're really going to try to tell me it is not additive, it is transparent, I really don't know how to speak to that.

Tim

 

[mep]

There are a couple of them, actually, and I've listed the tables before. I don't remember what they are. I don't know what the carts are. I know one of these guys is very into it and the other is pretty OCD. Have they made choices you'd consider good enough? I have no idea and couldn't care less. They've made careful choices and they love their vinyl, that I'm sure of.

And really, that's not what this is about. I'm not saying vinyl sounds bad. It isn't my preference but nobody but me should care about that. I am saying that vinyl has a sound of its own, and at least a part of that sound is native to the process of creating and playing the vinyl. Is anyone here actually arguing with that? Really?

Tim

Tim-If you listed the tables before, I can't remember them. And nobody is saying that your friends LP setups aren't "good enough" because we have no idea what they are. When someone makes bold statements based on something they personally don't own and don't listen to at home, it's only natural that we would like to know what systems you are basing your judgements on. I think if the reverse was true and I told you I hate digital even though I didn't own any method of digital playback but a friend of mine did and I thought it was highly colored and it wasn't my cup of tea, you just might want to know what the hell digital playback system I was listening to.

 

[DaveyF]

For those who want to read a little more about this system: http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/see-the-range/klimax

BTW, I do NOT think for a second that Linn is planning on weakening their analog ( read LP12) sales by delving more into the digital realm. Instead, as mep pointed out, they are looking for new business ( mep would probably call them "converts" ). I see NOTHING wrong with bringing a little new blood into the audiophile realm. If this is what it takes, I say more power to them.

 

[mep]

Well I guess I've got my answer. Hard to imagine that you're serious, but I've got my answer. There's nothing additive about vinyl? It is transparent to the master? You are aware of the production process, I assume? All the specifics anyone should ever need are there. Again, none of this is to say it doesn't sound good...good enough for you to prefer, adore, defend to the death. But if you're really going to try to tell me it is not additive, it is transparent, I really don't know how to speak to that.

Tim

Sometimes I can't help but think you are arguing specifications and not sound quality. There are so many fractures in the digital community that it's not funny. Some swear by RBCD and have built their entire systems around RBCD. Others poo-poo RBCD and think there is more to be heard with more bits and higher sampling rates much to the chagrin of the RBCD lovers. Then there is the PCM vs DSD wars where some people line up on the side of specifications and not what their ears tell them. And I'm sure that some of those ears that prefer PCM over DSD don't even listen to DSD and have no capability to play it back. Why do I prefer DSD over PCM? Because it sounds more like analog. What does analog sound like? More like real music played by real musicians playing real instruments (IMO). I prefer DSD over PCM for the same reason that I prefer analog to PCM.

 

[mep]

For those who want to read a little more about this system: http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/see-the-range/klimax

BTW, I do NOT think for a second that Linn is planning on weakening their analog ( read LP12) sales by delving more into the digital realm. Instead, as mep pointed out, they are looking for new business ( mep would probably call them "converts" ). I see NOTHING wrong with bringing a little new blood into the audiophile realm. If this is what it takes, I say more power to them.

I don't see anything wrong with it either Davey. If Linn can generate more sales and convert new people over to our crazy hobby, it's good for all of us.