The source is in the speaker!
- Thread starter DaveyF
- Start date
No, the spaciousness is not always there - only if the recording has it. Some turntables add something that can be taken as "spaciousness" - a kind of bass resonance and blurring during playback. The Oracle turntables of the first generation had it clearly due to the interaction between the motor, belt and suspension.
But a properly tuned turntable, tonearm, cartridge and RIAA stage will be free of this added spaciousness effect. I can risk putting names on it - take a SME30/2 -SMEV properly tuned with a Sumiko Palo Santos cartridge. The first time I had it in my system I was astonished - it did not sound like I was used to vinyl, it lacked the artificial "cushion of air". Although I hate analogies between colors and sound, pitch-black backgrounds as used by Fremer is a suggestive way of referring to this absence of artifacts. And when the recording has real spaciousness, then it is there. BTW, the addition of the ARC Phone reference also added a lot - really, sound reproduction systems are complex entities.
This does not mean that vinyl does not have a characteristic sound - just that once it is understood and mastered it can be suppressed to a point it does not become a subjective issue anymore. The same way as digital does not have to be grainy sounding - once the designers learned how to deal with it, it became a no-problem.
No, the spaciousness is not always there - only if the recording has it. Some turntables add something that can be taken as "spaciousness" - a kind of bass resonance and blurring during playback. The Oracle turntables of the first generation had it clearly due to the interaction between the motor, belt and suspension.
But a properly tuned turntable, tonearm, cartridge and RIAA stage will be free of this added spaciousness effect. I can risk putting names on it - take a SME30/2 -SMEV properly tuned with a Sumiko Palo Santos cartridge. The first time I had it in my system I was astonished - it did not sound like I was used to vinyl, it lacked the artificial "cushion of air". Although I hate analogies between colors and sound, pitch-black backgrounds as used by Fremer is a suggestive way of referring to this absence of artifacts. And when the recording has real spaciousness, then it is there. BTW, the addition of the ARC Phone reference also added a lot - really, sound reproduction systems are complex entities.
This does not mean that vinyl does not have a characteristic sound - just that once it is understood and mastered it can be suppressed to a point it does not become a subjective issue anymore. The same way as digital does not have to be grainy sounding - once the designers learned how to deal with it, it became a no-problem.
Can't say I've ever heard vinyl with a pitch black background. I'd like to hear that sometime.
Tim
You would if you heard an SME. Slams you in the face the first time your hear it.
Oh, I didn't say it was "better," just that I start my own threads. People can choose to read the thread and comment or not. You must enjoy them because you always seem to come along for the ride.
When MF refers to a black background what exactly is he referring to? Is it the interaction of the vinyl and cart/arm/TT on its own, or is it presentation given by the entire system? If the latter, I don't have a snowball's chance in hell of experiencing it with my current setup, and I suspect if one is honest that unless your system is of somewhat mega $$ in value, others can't either. I think the term as such does somewhat of a disservice to most audiophiles of average means as it becomes an impossible goal to shoot for. I understand the means for having a reference point however.
I personally don't concern myself much with it and only make sure that whatever I have at hand for playback is setup to the best of my abilities and preference. And this is where my passion for music pays off as it draws me in to the art first and foremost, and the system is only the vehicle that delivers it to my seating position. It's black enough for me.
I personally don't concern myself much with it and only make sure that whatever I have at hand for playback is setup to the best of my abilities and preference. And this is where my passion for music pays off as it draws me in to the art first and foremost, and the system is only the vehicle that delivers it to my seating position. It's black enough for me.
I don't know about MF but Black to me is the absence of light so in this case absence of noise. Not so hard if you think about how the ambient noise levels in rooms are TYPICALLY higher than that being played back. There are instances (nearfield, treated very quiet rooms, systems running at average spls) where noise may become an issue.
I am of the same thinking as you John. When people ask me about this hobby, I think they think I collect gear. Actually I don't. I collect music. The gear is just what I need to play the music in the best way I can. Like choosing the right light for a painting. Unfortunately things can get crazy really quickly when you want to max out the music. When you want to hear all of it in a scale that approaches how the assemblage might have sounded live you earn your Off The Deep End membership card. Too bad you can't get insurance for this illness!
Black is when the medium is playing but there is no recording playing ( before or between tracks), and there is no audible sound coming from the speakers.
Tim
Tim
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OTOH, let's look at it this way....one does NOT have to pay for an external DAC nor a Transport, an amp, a preamp, cabling ( which as we all know can add up VERY quickly), other front end source ( vinyl? ) etc. Add those pieces up and you now look at a slightly different picture--cost wise...although $47K is a huge amount for any newbie to consider. ( Or most everybody else for that matter!) I do believe that Linn has in mind the "designer" for this product, an easy one stop shop for them.
The other point to contemplate, is the trickle down aspect; IF Linn can make a similar product for a lot less, with simplification for cost savings, then the overall appeal will naturally be MUCH higher. Let's say they came out with a similar speaker for $7K...the savings over the full system ( multi-boxed) approach would be considerable, IMO.
And that is my point Davey. People who know nothing about audio think that you can buy a "top of the line" system from Sony, Bose, Yamaha, etc. for a couple of thousand dollars. Based on the cheesy marketing cartoons from Linn, it's clear to me they are marketing to people who know precious little about this crazy hobby. To think that you are going to market a $47K system to those people is a bit of a stretch for me. More power to them if they pull it off.
Or some wealthy person whose wife doesn't want their living room cluttered up with equipment. Plenty of those around.
Plus they don't ask the dumb questions that audiophools do. No, it's just when can you come in and set it up and where's the remote control? Less time spent selling = greater profit.
I think there will be plenty of profit at $47K. It will be interesting to see if this product takes off. Maybe Linn got jazzed when they sold some $40K tables and hatched this idea over a bottle of the booze the provided with the $40K tables.
I just looked on the Linn site. Fancy simple presentation with a lot of claims. $47K for this Klimax Exakt system? Are they nuts?
I was trying to be polite. It will be interesting to see if this system takes off and stays in production. Maybe Linn can pull another rabbit out of their hat. They are probably hard at work whipping up a new batch of Kool-Aid right now.
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