Thoughts on hearing a Wilson XVX Chronosonic System at Evolution Hifi
- Thread starter Lee
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It was good, the amps only have a few hours on them but sounded effortless
My XVX was installed by HI Fi Buys of Nashville 1st week of January 2020. The purchase was extremely complex because of the precise measurements that had to be made. The installation was extremely difficult and the dealer got it wrong times two. The correct time alignment was easy to hear when they finally got it right. I understand my system to be the sum of a lot of parts. My budget was large but still quite limited. I spent lots on cables, IC's, power cords and conditioners, isolation devices. Also on passive room treatments. I had previously thought that the subwoofer system did not require the very best in amps or cables, power cords, IC's etc but I was 100% wrong. I found that every improvement that I made, resulted in a significant improvement in by bass. So in addition to my MCD12000 An and C12000An I bought a 2.1KW An which controls my Thor so much better than my previous 1.25KW. I have nothing but 20 amp dedicated lines, 4 of them. I could go on but I have finally achieved the sound that I have been looking for all my life. I recently got my resistors to my XVX replaced and have been enjoying my XVX for nearly 5 years. I have zero itch for another speaker. It's a very musically satisfying loudspeaker. I don't tire of it. I don't wish for something more. I look forward to listening to it every day. I think that this says most of what you need to know if you are thinking about a purchase. Although a precision instrument, there's an element of magic about the XVX and it's a speaker that wants to make its owner happy. I look forward to hearing it today as much as I did 5 five years ago, maybe even more because my gear is so much superior to what I had with it 5 years ago.
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Well, you’ve just reopened the can of worms we barely managed to seal!
Congratulations on your pursuit of happiness!
I am a big Wilson fan. I am also someone who hugely admires the AG Trio G3 and could well imagine them sounding phenomenal with the Kondo Ongaku (heard them with Emm Ref monos). I am intrigued by the Destination Audio work and the big Clarysis Auditoriums. So I do not have predetermined design favorites...more like I respect the execution by certain designers of a variety of different kinds of designs. Tubed, SS, Hybrid, Panel, Horn, Cone.
I have owned the original X1s and heard each of the 3 series of the Alexandria’s and ultimately upgraded from X1 to the XLF when they started being recertified by Wilson for a fraction of their original cost. I have also heard the XVX with my Robert Koda amplification.
My sense of the overall Wilson Audio ethos and Daryl Wilson's personal version of that ethos is a combination of significant adjustability to accommodate system, room and taste…a long time focus for Wilson…and Daryl’s approach today which is a very very refined emphasis on nuance in his signals. There is a sense of mellifluous subtlety that his new generation of Wilsons have that is better then their predecessors but without losing the raw dynamic expression Wilsons have always been known for.
More so I think than his father whose strengths were revealed more in the unique adjustability design in the first place, and the focus on significant dynamic capability and dynamic expression with cones.
I think for people who focus on absolute coherence, there are probably single cone or single panel or horn expressions that do that better…but for people (like me) who are not particularly focused on that, I find that Wilsons deliver the physicality, the corporeal sense of the note and the musical performance, particularly its note depth and dynamic power and dynamic contrast very well. Plus, they have excellent capability to handle complex music and keep it all together so it does not compress nor lose the details which sometimes get fused together.
Finally, the fact that David Wilson first envisioned that this all happens in a 2’ x 2’ footprint is remarkable with this kind of scale and music. The AG Trio G3 with dual horns is probably 5’ x 5’ per channel and more likely more than this in certain set ups. Panels are beautiful too, but the space behind them to the front wall can be more significant than cones including Wilson and so once again, a lot of area can be required.
For me, Wilson has always been about the very practical combination of its strengths from practicality in spacial terms (2' x 2'), adjustability in set up terms (moveable enclosures, switchable bass ports, changeable resistors) and the balance of sound traits that adds up to 1 man's version of musical reproduction (first David Wilson and now Daryl Wilson) which include dynamic expression, the body of the note and the body of the music along with sufficient detail to bring forward the nuances in the recording.
The XVX happens to achieve each of these key attributes to a quite extraordinary level in a relatively compact volumetric space...and I have to say listening to the XLFs, powered by Robert Koda and reproducing the magic of the Zanden digital...I can fully appreciate how it is hard it is fo ryou to feel the need to get up to look anywhere else. Enjoy.
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What good is it if almost no one can afford it? I listened to a $200k pair of Wilson’s back on 2017 at innovative audio in New York. They were amazing with spectral electronics. Since then, I’ve listened to everything from the new watt puppy through the Alexx V and I don’t like any of them. There is a mid bass hump which creates fatigue and it’s very unnatural sounding. I owned a pair of Sophias back in 2004 which did the same thing. I sold them a year later.
The world will always aim to do things few can attain or achieve. The quad axel in skaing, Mt Everest, Patek Philippe, private jet travel, owning private islands or having enormous houses (and many of them), and the list goes on. Frankly, [as mentioned in my post], I was able to get an XLF factory certified by Wilson at a fraction of the original cost. Had that speaker not been done in 2012, and if the XVX had not since come out to replace it as the new flagship, I would not own the XLF for a fraction of the original cost. So I am happy that others can continue to pay flagship prices for the latest flagships, so I can focus on yesterday's flagship for a fraction of the original price. Works for me. (BTW, I acquired the original X1s when they were already 14 years old...for less than a pair of Sabrinas...and 10 years later traded them in for the exact same price...no loss on investment. So I had another old flagship that I enjoyed tremendously at a far-less-than-flagship price.)
As for personal preferences, I respect yours. The hump I imagine is a mixture of set up (where bass can vary dramatically in a room) as well as personal preference (ie, the team who set it up presumably like it that way). Another example, the mighty Gryphon amps are wonderful...I owned them for 10 years consecutively through the Mephisto. Whether after owning the Robert Kodas which are superbly organic and also superbly even, it appears the Gryphon might have added a touch of midbass heft or not...whether this is true or not, I have admitted I frankly did not care...I really enjoyed the life Gryphon amps give to most recordings where I could never honestly say I knew what the original intent of the mastering team was anyway...I just knew that keyboards had a great sense of body that sounded more similar to how I used to hear them after studying piano for 12 years (terrible pianist but I remember the sound). Whether Wilson also made a similar choice in the midbass or not, I cannot say...but I do like the balance of design decisions they made which also happen to matter to me. I am not as fussed by areas where Wilson did not focus the speaker...but I acknowledge others may feel otherwise.
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Lloyd, I suspect you could be a very good horse trader...
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Hah! Necessity is the mother of all invention! If I want a flagship of any kind, last generation or otherwise, and dont want to pay the retail price, then ingenuity must step in to take up the slack.
Yes it is. Wilson is a marketing company catering to the magazines, spending big money on ads, and give free product and big discounts to reviewers. They have a nice paint job, but the Wilson Sophia was one of the worst audio purchases I ever made. Being a classically trained musician, I can tell you based on my careful listening, most of their speakers do not sound like real music. The mid bass hump impresses in a showroom but quickly becomes tiresome at home. I listen to every speaker in the line up to the Alexx V. They all had that fake bloated bass. They are also a bunch of snobs at the factory. Done with Wilson forever.You sound very angry mate , must be personal ...
My first encounter with Wilsons was a pair of Watt/Puppy 5's that I heard at a friend's house.. It was in the mid 90s. My designer at work was big into hifi and had a pair with ML gear. I heard the Wilsons at his place and I was smitten. I longed for my own pair of Wilson speakers from that day on but I could not get over that hump- the cost. Too many other priorities back then. Once I retired I finally snagged me a pair of Sasha DAW's in 2022. I aspired for the Alexia 2's but my pragmatism held me back. I got to hear both pair on the same day in the same store. While the Alexia's had fuller, slightly more detailed bass; the DAW's were better in the midrange and highs, I felt. I can imagine the Alexia V's have it all.
The lesson learned for me was that the Wilson speakers are just the beginning of a new journey. Had I known ahead of time what that journey was going to cost me, I might have gotten cold feet. But I was like the frog that hopped into the pot of cold water and then the heat was turned on. What I mean is the Wilsons lead to cable and power cord upgrades that were costly. That lead to equipment upgrades and changes to my room. The reward, the payoff for me is excitement listening to music everyday like it is the first time. For me, there isn't anything these speakers can't play. The only downside is that Wilsons are not plug n play. Careful consideration of the room, setup and the supporting equipment is a must.
Would I go on the Wilson journey again in spite of the costs? You bet I would. I count myself most fortunate to have the means- and a forgiving wife. And even just a few years ago I wasn't sure if I could ever afford retirement but things worked out ok.
So, am I done? First rule of audio: Your system sounds great- until you hear something better. Haven't heard the XVX speakers. Probably shouldn't.
The lesson learned for me was that the Wilson speakers are just the beginning of a new journey. Had I known ahead of time what that journey was going to cost me, I might have gotten cold feet. But I was like the frog that hopped into the pot of cold water and then the heat was turned on. What I mean is the Wilsons lead to cable and power cord upgrades that were costly. That lead to equipment upgrades and changes to my room. The reward, the payoff for me is excitement listening to music everyday like it is the first time. For me, there isn't anything these speakers can't play. The only downside is that Wilsons are not plug n play. Careful consideration of the room, setup and the supporting equipment is a must.
Would I go on the Wilson journey again in spite of the costs? You bet I would. I count myself most fortunate to have the means- and a forgiving wife. And even just a few years ago I wasn't sure if I could ever afford retirement but things worked out ok.
So, am I done? First rule of audio: Your system sounds great- until you hear something better. Haven't heard the XVX speakers. Probably shouldn't.
Why shouldn’t I? It costs nothing to listen. But, I’m perfectly satisfied with my Focal Utopia Maestro Evo. XVX is one of the ugliest audio products I’ve seen. It’s also insanely expensive and yet they are still using the old fashioned carpet which deteriorates quickly on the front of their speakers. Wilson can’t even build their own drivers. They make a cabinet and customize a crossover. That’s all. No thank you to any of their products.
I too heard the Wilson Watt/Puppy system at Stereo Exchange about 40 years ago! The top end was mercilessly bright, and I never once succumbed to the desire of owing Wilson's since then. Too many "audiophile" moving coil dynamic speakers have this vivid technicolor sound that initially sounds really impressive, but then you discover that almost all recordings sound too bright (at least to my ears). I did own a B&W 800D for a few years. The original B&W 800 Nautilus, which I also owned before that, was at least reasonably neutral. Since then, successive generations of B&W 800s have gotten only brighter and brighter, and I'm guessing that's what the market wants.
I moved to electrostatic loudspeakers, and stuck with those for 35+ years, occasionally venturing into dynamic speakers (e.g., Harbeth, which are tonally much more natural than any Wilson I've heard, but again, it will not give you a technicolor presentation that a lot of folks crave). I haven't heard Wilsons in a long time, and I'm hoping they have learned over the years to tame that top end tweeter.
My general philosophy of owing a loudspeaker (as opposed to demoing it in a store) is that it has to work with as broad a collection of music as possible, even poorly recorded stuff. If it only works on "audiophile recordings", that's a non-starter for me. I want to enjoy 1930s jazz as much as the latest DSD classical releases. Not many loudspeakers that carry out that task and do it well enough. If you want to stay with electrostatics, then for full range, you need to get something really large -- my latest acquisition is a 9-feet tall pair of Sound Labs, but these are so large that it won't be acceptable in many homes. I love mine, but they are an acquired taste, like fine wine. You won't get vivid bright sound from a well-designed electrostatics, or a thumping bass. If those are the things you crave, then Wilson's will do really well, I'm sure (or B&W).
A lot depends on the type of music you listen to. I rarely listen to rock and roll, and primarily to classical, folk, jazz, choral, and international. Some loudspeakers that give you that rising top end (like a Lyra moving coil cartridge) or an elevated bottom (see Stereophile measurements of the Wilson's used in Mikey's reviews when he used to write for them), really seem well-suited to loud rock and roll or disco. For rock and roll or electronic music, there's no notion of what is the "absolute sound" (meaning live unamplified music in an actual concert hall), so it's fair to design any response that makes the customers happy. Wilsons are enormously successful, so they clearly know their market!
They know how to market their products through advertising and catering to reviewers
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