tima's DIY RCM
- Thread starter tima
- Start date
I understand. The thread is long and the cleaning solution formula varies across users and cleaning system configuration. The choice of solution has evolved over time as we gain knowledge and experience.
For an approx. 12.75 Liter tank I'm using approx 2 millililiters of Tergitol 15-S-9. That's all.
tima's DIY RCM
I bought the 3ml Calibrated Eye Dropper pipettes Neil mentions, and 1 pint of Tergitol 15-S-9 from Talasonline.com ($21.75 + ship) The calibrated pipettes graduated in 1,2 and 3 ml are a perfect tool for adding Tergitol to a tank - very nice, thanks for the suggestion Neil. I emptied the tank of...
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I understand. The thread is long and the cleaning solution formula varies across users and cleaning system configuration. The choice of solution has evolved over time as we gain knowledge and experience.
For an approx. 12.75 Liter tank I'm using approx 2 millililiters of Tergitol 15-S-9. That's all.
tima's DIY RCM
I bought the 3ml Calibrated Eye Dropper pipettes Neil mentions, and 1 pint of Tergitol 15-S-9 from Talasonline.com ($21.75 + ship) The calibrated pipettes graduated in 1,2 and 3 ml are a perfect tool for adding Tergitol to a tank - very nice, thanks for the suggestion Neil. I emptied the tank of...
Tim, do you get a lot of surface foam with that level of concentration of the Tergitol? I was using 1.2 mL and it produced a lot of foam. It all goes away in the rinse cycle so I don't consider it an issue but I am curious if you are seeing the same thing.
Hi David - check post #341 and #342, where I talk about that a little, and a picture, comparing with ILFOTOL. There is some foam, guess I didn't consider it excessive, but that's me.. I fill to right the waterline marker in the tank.
I get more foaming with 1.2 mL of Tergitol compared to what you are getting. My tubing from the filter extends to the bottom of the tank but it definitely produces a lot of agitation since the pump is pretty powerful.
David,
You and @tima are using the same pump. Do you get the same amount of foam all the time, or just when you first add? Two items to consider:
1. Raise the tubing so it is mid-way. This will provide better/wider distribution in the tank since its not impinging on the tank bottom which increases agitation ergo - more foam.
2. Do you degas before adding the Tergitol? Degassing will reduce the agitation of the Tergitol when it is 1st added and will be locally very concentrated until mixed.
Neil
I will try cutting off the end of the tubing so it doesn't extend all the way down.
I add the Tergitol and then degas. I now see the value of reversing the order. I don't think that the foaming is as bad when I do a 2nd cleaning after refilling the tank and adding new Tergitol. I will report back this weekend.
Thanks Neil and Tim.
I just got a bigger tank for rinsing. It is 240W/10L, 40kHz but has a sweep function. No idea what is the sweep bandwidth. Was wondering if it is safe to use it without knowing the bandwidth? Any thoughts? Thanks
Jarek
The sweep frequency is generally 1-2 kHz +/- the main frequency which in your case is 40 KHz. It is not going to do any harm to the record. Industry uses sweep frequency to minimize standing waves in the UT tanks; the effect being a more uniform cavitation energy in the tank. For normal use of UT tanks with items stationary getting a more uniform cavitation energy yields better cleaning. But, a record is not stationary - its rotating; so this is not applicable and standing waves in the tanks may be beneficial - read this post for more info; https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/timas-diy-rcm.26013/post-741479
Neil
Thanks Neil! Actually it seems that the sweep in my case is more radical: 10kHz to 40kHz. I was told the numbers by the Audiorevita guy from whom I bought. When in the sweep mode, the normal US noise of the operation periodically disappears then reappears so it is more than few kHz modulation for sure.
Tim, how does one turn on this feature? It is mentioned in the manual but I couldn't find the instructions. Do you press and hold the frequency button?
Jarek,
What is being said that it sweeps 10 to 40 kHz makes no sense. To sweep that much difference they would need multiple transducers. The $$$$ Elmasonic P-series uses custom transducers and DSP to produce 37 + 80 kHz. However, some companies install two different transducers. If it actually went to 10-kHz you would definitely hear it; it would not get quiet; and it would damage not only the record but could pit the tank. The manual implies it a standard +/- a few kHz manual_arc_04 (home.pl). However, given the uncertainty - recommend you not use it.
Neil
Page 15 of the manual specifies action - Elmasonic P Ultrasonic Cleaning Units - Operating Instructions (elma-ultrasonic.co.nz)
Hi Neil, thank you! I can actually hear the detunning, I was not precise, it does not get quiet. Probably he was mistaken with 10kHz. But if sweep is getting only a doubtful advantage with moving vinyls I will simply not use it (although Audiorevita guy says when using sweep he is cleaning the LP's to the same level faster as without it). BTW, cant't praise enough the filetering circuit you recommended: Past 100LP's the cleaner is still transparent!
Interesting, with 0.02% of S7 I get no foaming at all unless I stir the cleaner energetically.
Ti
Elmasonic calls is an Automatic Frequency Change Mode. It may be beneficial. It cycles 30-sec @ 37 kHz and then 30-sec @ 80 kHz. One of the theories is that UT cleans in layers and that the soil may be in layers of various consistency. By periodically changing the frequency (not to confuse this with sweep) it changes the cavitation energy and the bubble size & density (how many bubbles) and this has an agitation effect. But this is done at only one power level. So, if you are using 70% power at 37-kHz you are stuck with 70% power at 80-kHz and if you recall, I think you want 100% power+ pulse at 80-KHz noting that cavitation energy drops off at higher kHz because of smaller bubble size.
The other item to consider, is that for the most part, you are not cleaning anything that is really dirty. The record is not covered in a thick layer of oil & grease. So, the 37-kHz mode is only so effective. For a record, to get best achievable (background noise approaching digital silence) you are trying to clean in spaces/particles <20 microns where the 80-kHz should have the advantage. But, you have to clear away the big stuff to get to the little stuff.
But you never know, so it may be worth while trying the Automatic Frequency Change Mode for the 1st UT cycle in-place of continuous 37-kHz:
1. 1st cycle - Automatic Frequency Change Mode at 70-80% power. Time the cycle so that the record receives an equal amount of exposure - keep it simple by using an equal number of revolutions. So, at 0.6 rpm = 1-revolution every 1.67 min; 3 revolutions = 5 min.
2. 2nd cycle - 80 kHz at 100% power + pulse. At 0.6 rpm use as above 5 min for 3-revolutions.
Good Luck,
Neil
Tim,
Elmasonic calls is an Automatic Frequency Change Mode. It may be beneficial. It cycles 30-sec @ 37 kHz and then 30-sec @ 80 kHz. One of the theories is that UT cleans in layers and that the soil may be in layers of various consistency. By periodically changing the frequency (not to confuse this with sweep) it changes the cavitation energy and the bubble size & density (how many bubbles) and this has an agitation effect. But this is done at only one power level. So, if you are using 70% power at 37-kHz you are stuck with 70% power at 80-kHz and if you recall, I think you want 100% power+ pulse at 80-KHz noting that cavitation energy drops off at higher kHz because of smaller bubble size.
The other item to consider, is that for the most part, you are not cleaning anything that is really dirty. The record is not covered in a thick layer of oil & grease. So, the 37-kHz mode is only so effective. For a record, to get best achievable (background noise approaching digital silence) you are trying to clean in spaces/particles <20 microns where the 80-kHz should have the advantage. But, you have to clear away the big stuff to get to the little stuff.
But you never know, so it may be worth while trying the Automatic Frequency Change Mode for the 1st UT cycle in-place of continuous 37-kHz:
1. 1st cycle - Automatic Frequency Change Mode at 70-80% power. Time the cycle so that the record receives an equal amount of exposure - keep it simple by using an equal number of revolutions. So, at 0.6 rpm = 1-revolution every 1.67 min; 3 revolutions = 5 min.
2. 2nd cycle - 80 kHz at 100% power + pulse. At 0.6 rpm use as above 5 min for 3-revolutions.
Good Luck,
Neil
Jarek,
There are a lot of nuances to UT cleaning. The cleaning solution recommended by Audiorevita is quite poor for use in an UT tank. It uses 22% IPA which is flammable and his equipment is not explosion proof and it lowers the vapor pressure of the water a lot which defeats the purpose of developing maximum cavitation energy. The Mirasol is nothing more than a low-foaming dishwasher rinse-aid that is a wetting solution with very little detergency. Water by itself is a dense/stiff fluid and it can develop a lot of cavitation energy. So, ideally the cleaning fluid (or records) adds wetting and some detergency while preserving the density/viscosity (take your pick) of the water to get the maximum overall cleaning.
-Isopropyl Alcohol 96% - 1 litre
-Demineralized water - 4,5 litres
-Mirasol liquid (TETENAL) or Ilfotol (Ilford) - 10 mils.
Neil
I totally missed that (although I did guess that was how to do it) even though I was looking right at it!
Neil, I just take machines from Audiorevita, not their liquids. I use 2.5% IPA + 0.02% Tergitol S7
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