tima's DIY RCM

[redandgold]

Andreas,

1. First - in the back of the book the very last Table XXV, UCM Pump-Filter System Parts List, provides a complete parts list for 3-different filter options.

2. For the pump, which will be 12VDC, you have 2-options: either will work. You need to mount these on a block of wood with rubber grommets. They are both be a bit noisy, but the Seaflo may be noisier.

-The better Shurflo SLV - SLV Fresh Water Pump - Shurflo.eu
-The cheaper Chinese SeaFlo - Seaflo 12V 4.3 LPM Wasser System Pumpe : Amazon.de: Sports & Outdoors

3. For the 12VDC pump you need a decent power supply - MEAN WELL™ GST60A12-P1J 12V 5 Amp 60W - MEAN WELL GST60A12-P1J Tischnetzteil, Festspannung 12 V/DC 5A 60W : Amazon.de: Computer & Accessories. This is for universal AC voltage input, and you may need an adapter for your AC power but being sold in Germany it should come supplied.

4. You will need a simple wire converter to connect the power supply which comes standard with 2.1mm male to whatever the pump is terminated with - it is probably just bare wires. just be careful of the polarity cablepelado DC Female Connector 5.5 x 2.1 mm Black: Amazon.de: Electronics & Photo,

5. The Pentek 10" filter housing with 3/4" connections can be purchased here: Pentek Water filter housing 3 G standard, 10 inch, with mounting device | Kwerk Online Shop. Make sure you buy the wrench - buy 2 they are kind of flimsy and just tape them together.

7. For filters, contact this company PP Polypropylene Filter Cartridges | Dorsan (dorsanfiltration.com). You want 10" with DOE connections, 0.2-micron for the cleaning tank and you can use 0.45 or 1.0 micron on the rinse tank. Let them know what filter housing you are using, and they should know exactly what model to sell you.

8. For your installation, for now you can operate w/o the filter inlet pressure gauge - or you can search & source the parts from Amazon. As the book states: Monitor pump motor housing temperature. When hot >120°F, replace the filter.

9. There is a bunch of small parts, fittings for the housing Quickun Plastic Hose Fitting 3/8" Barb to 3/4" Male Thread White Connector Adapter (Pack of 5) : Amazon.de: Business, Industry & Science, for the hose sourcing map Braided Reinforced PVC Hose 10 mm ID 15 mm OD 1 m Transparent High Pressure for Water Hose : Amazon.de: Garden you will need 3 pieces of 1-M each, and clamps. In Table XXV, there is a detailed list - just work down the list of parts in either the low or medium column.

Good luck,
Neil

Hey Neil, hey Tim,

I want to give some feedback about your great, at which I am still working. Nowadays not every part is so easy and quick to get here in Germany as I expected.
The small parts as hoses and fitting are quick ordered at amazon, but after three weeks even some is under shipment by supplier. Also the Tergitol was funny because the companies did only supply commercial clients. So I asked the owner of a cleaning company to do, voilá:



I will keep it in cardboard to protect against daylight. This will keep for many years.
The better pump took me too more than 3 weeks to finally get them.
At least IPA and DIW were the first products to reach my home.



Because Elma is a german company, I thought I will get the baths within a week. No way. Due to some commercial it took me over 4 weeks. But finaly, here they are:



Not expected, but getting the filter solution is really the worst horror. Getting the plastic housing was not so easy. They asked me first the 4 times the price due to small quantity fee and shipping costs. I finally bought 4 pieces, if one housing would break and the ratio housing price to total costs sounds a bit better. But now the story with cartridges...first no one could offer me cartridges fitting to the housing. Than they were out of stock, than they offered only 5 micron filters. After some discusions at least the sales company of the housing organized 0,2 micron filters fitting to the housing, but only in quantity of 48 pieces at over 800 EUR. This was not funny. But finally I gave up and ordered.
Resumed, this purchase list is a great support, but purchase is a wonderland.

 

[redandgold]

Dear Tim,

waiting for the filter drove me to starting reading the Elma manuals of Easy 120H and P 120H.
There are two questions which didn't come clear to me:
1. Elma states in the manual clearly "Never use flammable liquids...Risk of fire and explosion." You use a ratio 250ml IFP to 12l DIW, that's only 2% concentration. To my understanding this is so low IPA, there is no risk. Did you have ever a situation where you felt uncomfortable with IPA liquid like smelling the IPA and thinking about risk?
2. If I use your cleaning sequence, I would press the following: Press key ON, set time knob to 20min, press key Start, press key Sweep, press key Freq >2sec starting alternating frequency and finally select Power by pressing Pow. Is this sequence correct?
One detail is missing in the manual: How does the power variate by pressing Pow? Do I have to press many times to reach the wanted power and must I keep pressing so long up the wanted power is reached?

 

[Neil.Antin]

After some discusions at least the sales company of the housing organized 0,2 micron filters fitting to the housing, but only in quantity of 48 pieces at over 800 EUR. This was not funny. But finally I gave up and ordered.
Resumed, this purchase list is a great support, but purchase is a wonderland.

Andreas,

Ouch! Sorry to hear of your trials and tribulations. It should not be this difficult. I just spent an hour seeing if I could have identified an alternate with no real luck. The internet search engines are very regional and not easy to manipulate to search other countries/regions and even restricting by using loc:de still gave little.

You could keep 24 of the filters (the shelf life is pretty much indefinitely) which will serve you for about the next 12-years (assuming each tank is filtered) and then sell off the other 24 on eBay to off-set your cost.
But congrats on getting the Tergitol 15-S-9. It will last many years. Just store in a cool, dry, dark cabinet/place.

Take care,
Neil

 

[Neil.Antin]

1. Elma states in the manual clearly "Never use flammable liquids...Risk of fire and explosion." You use a ratio 250ml IFP to 12l DIW, that's only 2% concentration. To my understanding this is so low IPA, there is no risk. Did you have ever a situation where you felt uncomfortable with IPA liquid like smelling the IPA and thinking about risk?

Andreas,

At 2%, look at the book Figure 36 – Alcohol + Water Flashpoint Temperature, the flashpoint is 66.5C (151.7F). In use for cleaning records, you should stay max at ~25C (95F) and never exceed 40C (104) otherwise you risk damaging the record. At these low temperatures, the small amount of IPA in the water (or any vapors coming off the tank) will not be flammable.

Take care,
Neil

 

[tima]

Dear Tim,

waiting for the filter drove me to starting reading the Elma manuals of Easy 120H and P 120H.
There are two questions which didn't come clear to me:
1. Elma states in the manual clearly "Never use flammable liquids...Risk of fire and explosion." You use a ratio 250ml IFP to 12l DIW, that's only 2% concentration. To my understanding this is so low IPA, there is no risk. Did you have ever a situation where you felt uncomfortable with IPA liquid like smelling the IPA and thinking about risk?
2. If I use your cleaning sequence, I would press the following: Press key ON, set time knob to 20min, press key Start, press key Sweep, press key Freq >2sec starting alternating frequency and finally select Power by pressing Pow. Is this sequence correct?
One detail is missing in the manual: How does the power variate by pressing Pow? Do I have to press many times to reach the wanted power and must I keep pressing so long up the wanted power is reached?

Hi Andreas, how are you?

I"m surprised there has been so many issues getting parts in Gremany. Good luck rounding up what you need.

With regard to IPA and Elmasonic, I thnk Neil has the right answer. His thinking on IPA has evolved. We learn with time and experience. I have no concern with 2% IPA. (Neil - what do you think of using IPA in the Rinse?)

As to the Power button, press it as many times as you need to get to the desired power. It moves from 30 in increments of 10 and wraps around when pressing at 100.

As to the sequence I go through...

1. Run degas on each tank for 10 minutes. No heat. Pumps on. After 10 minutes turn degas off.

Note: sometimes I keep pump/filter running throughout the wash cycle, sometimes I turn pump off afer degas. I believe Neil suggests turning pump off during wash. If I run wash tank pump only during degas, I may turn it on for 5-10 minutes between wash cycle 1 and 2, or run pump for 10 minutes while Rinsing. Adjust pump on/off in the sequence accordingly.

Wash tank -- Cycle 1
2.Load records on spindle onto Kuzma RD, check clearance on both sides of tank.
3. Turn on RD, turn on Elma
4. Set Timer for 10 minutes
5. Hold kHz button untill an * asterish appears next to kHz readout
6. Set Power to 80%
7. Press Start button; after 10 minutes cycle 1 stops.

Wash tank -- Cycle 2
8. Set Timer for 10 minutes
9. Set kHz to 80kHz
10. Set Power to 100%
11. Press Start button; after 10 mutes cycle 2 stops.
12. Turn off Kuzma RD
13. Turn off Elma

Rinse
1. Move spindle from Wash tank to Rinse tank RD, check clearance on both sides of tank
2. Turn on RD
3. Set timer for 10 minutes
4. Press Start button, after 10 minutes cycle stops.
5. Turn off RD
6. Turn off Elma,
7. Remove spindle of records and return to its stand at 45 degree angle.

I do not use the heater. Temps will rise on their own starting with degas.

I worked through that from memory, so I hope I got most of it. Tell me if I missed something or questions.

 

[Neil.Antin]

(Neil - what do you think of using IPA in the Rinse?)

Tim

There are pro's and con's:

Pro: Look at Figure 38 – Water + Alcohol Surface Tensions of at 25°C, 2% will reduce the surface tension by about 10% and look at Figure 37 – Water + Alcohol Boiling Points, 2% will reduce the boiling point by about 10%. The consequence is that when you remove the record from the bath, the water will want to run off the record faster which mean less water to dry, and the lower boiling point should indicate the water will evaporate faster which combined means the record should dry faster.

Con: VIII.8.8 Alcohol Evaporative Losses: Ethanol and IPA at low concentrations (<50%)...can evaporate separately from water.... At low concentrations, the alcohol vapor concentration is much higher than the liquid concentration. For those that may use Ethanol or IPA at low concentrations in an ultrasonic tank (use only at concentrations that are not flammable); over a period of time, the alcohol will evaporate from the water faster than the water evaporating. Unless the alcohol concentration is monitored and 0-50% isopropyl alcohol hydrometers are available - such as H-B Instrument Durac Isopropyl Alcohol Hydrometers Range: 50 to 100%:Humidity | Fisher Scientific - (cheaper versions are available by VWR but current links are not functioning), the concentration will drop if the tank bath life is extended (how fast unknown). But the hydrometer is only accurate +/-1%.

Take care,
Neil

 

[redandgold]

Andreas,

At 2%, look at the book Figure 36 – Alcohol + Water Flashpoint Temperature, the flashpoint is 66.5C (151.7F). In use for cleaning records, you should stay max at ~25C (95F) and never exceed 40C (104) otherwise you risk damaging the record. At these low temperatures, the small amount of IPA in the water (or any vapors coming off the tank) will not be flammable.

Take care,
Neil

Dear Neil,

thank you for your answer. This relaxes me a lot in two ways: Not a tiny bit of danger and no great loss of IPA and variation of the IPA concentration. So I keep my plan and use IPA additional to Tergitol. The tergitol I put in a dry cardboard and only open it for the pipette.

Best regards

Andreas

 

[redandgold]

Hi Andreas, how are you?

I"m surprised there has been so many issues getting parts in Gremany. Good luck rounding up what you need.

With regard to IPA and Elmasonic, I thnk Neil has the right answer. His thinking on IPA has evolved. We learn with time and experience. I have no concern with 2% IPA. (Neil - what do you think of using IPA in the Rinse?)

As to the Power button, press it as many times as you need to get to the desired power. It moves from 30 in increments of 10 and wraps around when pressing at 100.

As to the sequence I go through...

1. Run degas on each tank for 10 minutes. No heat. Pumps on. After 10 minutes turn degas off.

Note: sometimes I keep pump/filter running throughout the wash cycle, sometimes I turn pump off afer degas. I believe Neil suggests turning pump off during wash. If I run wash tank pump only during degas, I may turn it on for 5-10 minutes between wash cycle 1 and 2, or run pump for 10 minutes while Rinsing. Adjust pump on/off in the sequence accordingly.

Wash tank -- Cycle 1
2.Load records on spindle onto Kuzma RD, check clearance on both sides of tank.
3. Turn on RD, turn on Elma
4. Set Timer for 10 minutes
5. Hold kHz button untill an * asterish appears next to kHz readout
6. Set Power to 80%
7. Press Start button; after 10 minutes cycle 1 stops.

Wash tank -- Cycle 2
8. Set Timer for 10 minutes
9. Set kHz to 80kHz
10. Set Power to 100%
11. Press Start button; after 10 mutes cycle 2 stops.
12. Turn off Kuzma RD
13. Turn off Elma

Rinse
1. Move spindle from Wash tank to Rinse tank RD, check clearance on both sides of tank
2. Turn on RD
3. Set timer for 10 minutes
4. Press Start button, after 10 minutes cycle stops.
5. Turn off RD
6. Turn off Elma,
7. Remove spindle of records and return to its stand at 45 degree angle.

I do not use the heater. Temps will rise on their own starting with degas.

I worked through that from memory, so I hope I got most of it. Tell me if I missed something or questions.

Hey Tim,

sometimes I asked myself if this hassle with purchase has changed due to Covid. This long long purchase periods I don't know before too.

Your procedure sounds perfect to me. Perfect means, I feel free to dublicate 1:1 your experience and do it the same. I will let the heater off too.

Short note: I thought about your note to the RD, scratched the money and ordered both Kuzmas now. The risk of damage changing not only spindle, but the whole construction is indeed much higher.

Cheers, Andreas

 

[redandgold]

Tim

There are pro's and con's:

Pro: Look at Figure 38 – Water + Alcohol Surface Tensions of at 25°C, 2% will reduce the surface tension by about 10% and look at Figure 37 – Water + Alcohol Boiling Points, 2% will reduce the boiling point by about 10%. The consequence is that when you remove the record from the bath, the water will want to run off the record faster which mean less water to dry, and the lower boiling point should indicate the water will evaporate faster which combined means the record should dry faster.

Con: VIII.8.8 Alcohol Evaporative Losses: Ethanol and IPA at low concentrations (<50%)...can evaporate separately from water.... At low concentrations, the alcohol vapor concentration is much higher than the liquid concentration. For those that may use Ethanol or IPA at low concentrations in an ultrasonic tank (use only at concentrations that are not flammable); over a period of time, the alcohol will evaporate from the water faster than the water evaporating. Unless the alcohol concentration is monitored and 0-50% isopropyl alcohol hydrometers are available - such as H-B Instrument Durac Isopropyl Alcohol Hydrometers Range: 50 to 100%:Humidity | Fisher Scientific - (cheaper versions are available by VWR but current links are not functioning), the concentration will drop if the tank bath life is extended (how fast unknown). But the hydrometer is only accurate +/-1%.

Take care,
Neil

Maybe my idea is silly, but adding Con: Could we risk a bit of residue due to the IPA? On other surfaces sometimes you can see different reflection than without alcohol. And secondly. If I am not wrong, vinyl after washing containes a tiny bit of humidity. For example I heard from a disk flattener company that they propose not to directly heat the records and pressure the steam to leave instandly. They propose to give vinyl some time to deeply dry.

 

[Neil.Antin]

and no great loss of IPA and variation of the IPA concentration.

Andreas,

To be clear - that is not what I said. If you run the same bath with 2% IPA for 4-weeks, after 4-weeks, you are not going to have 2% IPA. I do not know how long you could run the bath before needing to add IPA. I think @tony22 bought an IPA hydrometer, and if he did, he may be able to give us some info.

Take care,
Neil

 

[Neil.Antin]

Maybe my idea is silly, but adding Con: Could we risk a bit of residue due to the IPA? On other surfaces sometimes you can see different reflection than without alcohol. And secondly. If I am not wrong, vinyl after washing containes a tiny bit of humidity. For example I heard from a disk flattener company that they propose not to directly heat the records and pressure the steam to leave instandly. They propose to give vinyl some time to deeply dry.

Andreas,

2% IPA is not going to increase residue of any consequence. If you look in the book Table VIII Alcohol Specifications & Purity. UPS (typo -should read USP) grade max NVR is 50-mg/L. Using 91% USP-grade to get 2% in a 12-L tank, you would add (0.02/.91)x(12000-ml) = ~265 ml. With IPA NVR at 50-mg/L x (265/1000) = 13.25 mg NVR to the 12L bath = 13.25 mg/12L = 1.1 ppm. This is inconsequential when you consider you are using the DIW until it reads 5-10 ppm.

However, if you use very concentrated IPA with no dilution then you can often get a high residue result. The problem is not the IPA per-se. Its as the book addresses: VIII.8.9.d Very high purity IPA 99% and greater is very hygroscopic. Use as a soak, spot or wipe cleaner can have unpredictable results since it can absorb moisture from the environment with all its impurities before it dries leaving the surface far dirtier than expected.

Take care,
Neil

 

[tima]

Hey Tim,

sometimes I asked myself if this hassle with purchase has changed due to Covid. This long long purchase periods I don't know before too.

...

Short note: I thought about your note to the RD, scratched the money and ordered both Kuzmas now. The risk of damage changing not only spindle, but the whole construction is indeed much higher.

Cheers, Andreas

Yes, covid, the universal excuse ...

Congratulations on choosing the RD. Paired with the Elmasonic tanks forms the base of a top class system.

 

[redandgold]

Hi Andreas, how are you?

I"m surprised there has been so many issues getting parts in Gremany. Good luck rounding up what you need.

With regard to IPA and Elmasonic, I thnk Neil has the right answer. His thinking on IPA has evolved. We learn with time and experience. I have no concern with 2% IPA. (Neil - what do you think of using IPA in the Rinse?)

As to the Power button, press it as many times as you need to get to the desired power. It moves from 30 in increments of 10 and wraps around when pressing at 100.

As to the sequence I go through...

1. Run degas on each tank for 10 minutes. No heat. Pumps on. After 10 minutes turn degas off.

Note: sometimes I keep pump/filter running throughout the wash cycle, sometimes I turn pump off afer degas. I believe Neil suggests turning pump off during wash. If I run wash tank pump only during degas, I may turn it on for 5-10 minutes between wash cycle 1 and 2, or run pump for 10 minutes while Rinsing. Adjust pump on/off in the sequence accordingly.

Wash tank -- Cycle 1
2.Load records on spindle onto Kuzma RD, check clearance on both sides of tank.
3. Turn on RD, turn on Elma
4. Set Timer for 10 minutes
5. Hold kHz button untill an * asterish appears next to kHz readout
6. Set Power to 80%
7. Press Start button; after 10 minutes cycle 1 stops.

Wash tank -- Cycle 2
8. Set Timer for 10 minutes
9. Set kHz to 80kHz
10. Set Power to 100%
11. Press Start button; after 10 mutes cycle 2 stops.
12. Turn off Kuzma RD
13. Turn off Elma

Rinse
1. Move spindle from Wash tank to Rinse tank RD, check clearance on both sides of tank
2. Turn on RD
3. Set timer for 10 minutes
4. Press Start button, after 10 minutes cycle stops.
5. Turn off RD
6. Turn off Elma,
7. Remove spindle of records and return to its stand at 45 degree angle.

I do not use the heater. Temps will rise on their own starting with degas.

I worked through that from memory, so I hope I got most of it. Tell me if I missed something or questions.

Dear Tim,

unfortunately the filter solution has not yet arrived. Because I don‘t want to wait any longer, I started some test washing cycles to get some impressions and experience. I have questions maybe you like to help me:

Q1: Do you use the sweep function as it seems to be useful. It is not written in your procedure.

Q2: Do you rinse with 80% or 100% power?

Q3: After Degas and Cycle 1/2 the temperature already reached 32 degrees by surprise. Which limit you feel is the temperature you should stop? 35 degrees?

Q4: Even after 30-40 min dry time there are some big drops not drying. I consider a hand spinner. Is there a better idea?

Best regards, Andreas

 

[tima]

Dear Tim,

unfortunately the filter solution has not yet arrived. Because I don‘t want to wait any longer, I started some test washing cycles to get some impressions and experience. I have questions maybe you like to help me:

Q1: Do you use the sweep function as it seems to be useful. It is not written in your procedure.

Q2: Do you rinse with 80% or 100% power?

Q3: After Degas and Cycle 1/2 the temperature already reached 32 degrees by surprise. Which limit you feel is the temperature you should stop? 35 degrees?

Q4: Even after 30-40 min dry time there are some big drops not drying. I consider a hand spinner. Is there a better idea?

Best regards, Andreas

Hi Andreas,

Nice to hear from you. I will address your questions.

1. I am aware of Sweep mode and have tried it. Its function is a ± variation in ultrasonic frequency. I don't recall Elmasonic stating what or how much is that variation, but it appears small. No, I do not user Sweep mode. I run two 10 minute wash cycles. Wash cycle #1 uses Automatic Frequency Change Mode (AFCM) which switches between 37kHz and 80 kHz every 30 seconds. This feature of the Elmasonic P120 is obscure -- at least in my version of the manual -- it is mentioned only once on p.15 of manual version BA_Elmasonic P_EN_Vers.07.2017. To activate it with the unit On, press the Frequency button for 2-3 seconds until you see an asterisk next to the frequency number. 37* will start at 37kHz and run for 30 seconds then switch to 80*, then back and forth.

2. The Elmasonic S120 I use for rinsing does not let me vary the power, so it is always at 100%.

3. I do not use the heater. I pause or stop if the wash tank temperature goes over 35° C.

4. In my drying area I have a small Heppa filter away from the records that circulates air. I also have a battery/USB powered 5-inch desk fan with 7 blades and 3 speeds which I will use if the humidity is higher. I place it ~4 feet from records on their RD spindle on low speed. Run it for ~5 minutes. This approach covers the full spindle; I don't have to remove records from their spindle to afix to some other device which is less manual handling, lower risk.

I see the filters I use are available here in the US, if you can bear the shipping.

 

[redandgold]

Hey Tim,

I tried washing without Sweep Mode and to be honest, I could not detect a huge difference by results. So it seems to be equal using it or not. Theoretically, Sweep Mode On sounds better for „the edge zone of the tank“. My manual says: „For large cleaning items, however, it may be useful to switch on the Sweep mode.“ As a batch of records is large, filling the bath completely.

My actual Easy has Eco mode and Dynamic mode, which means de facto more or less power. I use now the 100% power for rinsing.

With two cleaning cycles I reach the 35 degrees and I have to stop. Long time maybe I have to add a cooler. Two days before the filter housings came, still waiting for the filters.

I will try adding a fan. Up to now I blow the drops away by mouth, knowing it is not ideal.

Thank you for your support!

Andreas

 

[tima]

My actual Easy has Eco mode and Dynamic mode, which means de facto more or less power.

Is Easy a brand of ultrasonic tank ?

 

[redandgold]

Oh sorry, yes, i mean Elmasonic EASY 120H, which is the latest and basic US bath from Elmasonic, which I use for rinsing.

 

[tima]

Oh sorry, yes, i mean Elmasonic EASY 120H, which is the latest and basic US bath from Elmasonic, which I use for rinsing.

Nice - glad I asked as this is yet another (new) series of tanks from Elmasonic. Based on specs, the Easy 120H model should make a nice rinse tank at a relatively lower price, 1260 Euro, and work with the Kuzma RD. It operates at 37kHz and has the functions needed for DIY rinsing. It has a simple user interface. Click on the product feature list to see larger print.

Elmasonic Easy - Elma Schmidbauer GmbH

www.elma-ultrasonic.com

 

[redandgold]

Yes. It works flawless with my Kuzma RD.

 

[Jim in Missouri]

Nice - glad I asked as this is yet another (new) series of tanks from Elmasonic. Based on specs, the Easy 120H model should make a nice rinse tank at a relatively lower price, 1260 Euro, and work with the Kuzma RD. It operates at 37kHz and has the functions needed for DIY rinsing. It has a simple user interface. Click on the product feature list to see larger print.

View attachment 131823

Elmasonic Easy - Elma Schmidbauer GmbH

www.elma-ultrasonic.com

Tima: the specs for his 120H say 200w/800w at 37 kHz. Any concerns about the higher power setting at such a low kHz? - Jim