Tweaks : A sensible investment or a waste of money?

[DaveC]

power cables are essential/required to hear music. they come in all shapes and sizes just like electronics, but are required for music reproduction. so not a tweak.

not to say that an expensive power cord cannot be as crazy as tweaks can be. but it's still essential to have one.

an added box, or added transformer into the power grid is not essential. you can have music without it. so i view it as a tweak.

just my personal viewpoint and how i think of it.

I agree.

If we take pieces that are required for the system to function and call them tweaks then the entire system might as well be one big tweak. Including all the parts inside our components. Many people just look at them as boxes, but they are filled with parts and you could consider the selection of what parts to use tweaks, especially if they are chosen on the basis of subjective sound quality. If this is true then resistors, caps, amplification devices, inc tubes and transistors...are all tweaks. Wires are all tweaks, plugs are all tweaks, etc...

The term "tweak" is applied to doing things and using devices we don't understand. Once we understand them then we name them for what they do. Like "power cord" or "amplifier". It's just that with vibration control/damping and many other things we don't have a clear understanding of what they do, or at least exactly how they effect the sound we hear, so they fall into the "tweak' category.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Even the Peter Belt stuff??

i think there is a fuzzy line sitting somewhere that requires a tin foil hat to cross. and that category of mystic stuff is across it. those are things that you might let someone give you (i have a few that i was offered and agreed to take), or observe maybe, but never go out of your way to consider. they are 'over there'. you don't waste time even thinking about them.

 

[DaveC]

IMHO the embarrassing aspect of tweaks is that as soon as we accept one of them we must be prepared to accept them all.

Why?

Isn't it possible to try them and then decide NOT to accept them?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, I gave the big Mooks under gear a go. But won't entertain the little ones on the walls.

 

[Vienna]

The Stealth T- Select USB was an incredible tweak for my system, the EMM DA2/Aurender N10 sound got much closer to analogue
The Stillpoints LPI was another succesful tweak for my system

 

[KeithR]

The fascination with tweaks confuses me. Imho, most people are trying to find cheap improvement vs stepping up and purchasing better gear.

And when I see 40, 50, 60% of system costs on this stuff I’m truly baffled.

 

[microstrip]

(...)

The term "tweak" is applied to doing things and using devices we don't understand. Once we understand them then we name them for what they do. Like "power cord" or "amplifier". It's just that with vibration control/damping and many other things we don't have a clear understanding of what they do, or at least exactly how they effect the sound we hear, so they fall into the "tweak' category.

Why?

Isn't it possible to try them and then decide NOT to accept them?

How can we decide NOT to accept something that we do not understand? Negative bias is much more insidious than positive bias.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Keith, I love my 1968 Citröen DS21. I bought it for £10k in 2008. I'm about to spend £20k refurbishing it, LPG tank, better A/C, slightly tuned up engine, new upholstery and paintwork.

I guess I could have sold it (for the same amount I bought it for) and added that £20k to get a brand new car for £30k.

But what I love about the Cit I can't easily find elsewhere, and my pride of ownership stretches to optimising the current car rather than ditching it and buying a "better" new car.

I'm sure many others would have done this very thing.

I view certain tweaks spending as components in their own right. So significant spends on Sablon cables and Stacores I feel totally justified.

No doubt I could have done the conventional and boring thing, and just bought another set of components.

But I'm bullish that having felt I've acquired a components blend that finally speaks to me, I'm happy now to season the recipe.

 

[DaveC]

How can we decide NOT to accept something that we do not understand? Negative bias is much more insidious than positive bias.

I decide on the basis of experimentation... empirical evidence. If it doesn't make a difference in sound then I'd reject spending money on it, but still be open to the possibility others will have different results.

You do have to be aware of bias, but for me there is a threshold where I recognize what I feel are obvious differences. If I have to repeat 30 sec clips a few times and am still not very sure of what I'm hearing I'll disregard the experiment as it's too difficult to know for certain what the cause of the difference might be.

Over the years I've seen experienced folks come to faulty conclusions based on bias. None of us are infallible. However, I have done experiments that confirm some of my findings and others that have exposed bias, so I'm reasonably sure about some things based on data accumulated from years of having people demo cables and report their findings.

 

[Lee]

I recalll Ted Denney did a great job alongside Scott Walker presenting the S5 Mk2's at Axpona in 2017 which you covered for PTA. Impressive devices!

Yep. Ted's demos really show the difference.

 

[Lee]

On the power side, the first real upgrade I heard was from a Shunyate PS8 power strip. Then later a Denali tower blew me away even more..

 

[Tango]

And Tang, since tweaking leads to no money, you have to be careful just how much you scratch.

Wouldn't it be cheaper just to take anti-histamines?

Or just stop visiting audio forum.

power cables are essential/required to hear music. they come in all shapes and sizes just like electronics, but are required for music reproduction. so not a tweak.

not to say that an expensive power cord cannot be as crazy as tweaks can be. but it's still essential to have one.

an added box, or added transformer into the power grid is not essential. you can have music without it. so i view it as a tweak.

just my personal viewpoint and how i think of it.

My definition of tweak is exactly the same as yours. Sound tuning devices that can be taken out and the system can still sing is consider a tweak imo.

My new buddha statue protecting bad incidents happen to my system is not a tweak though.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Tango]

Keith, I love my 1968 Citröen DS21. I bought it for £10k in 2008. I'm about to spend £20k refurbishing it, LPG tank, better A/C, slightly tuned up engine, new upholstery and paintwork.

Didnt you need to repair the hydrolic suspension? My mom had this frog eye car when I was little. She loved Citroen. You are acool dude driving one Marc.

Tang

 

[spiritofmusic]

Oh Tang, even more money spent on hydraulics. But now I do 300 miles a week in Ruby.

Your mum is one classy lady.

My point, not serious, and obviously not a direct parallel. But I could have traded in cars every 3 years for "better and better" models, where I've been compelled more to tweak Ruby. With my refurb budget, and repairs schedule over a decade I could easily have spent the same budget on top Nissans or Lexus', or midline Mercs. But I haven't and never felt compelled. Again, I'm not saying this is right, logical, or the way for anyone else.

So w my system I truly love the overall signature sound, rim/idler analog, very analog like digital, tone dense soulful SETs/full range drivers.
I still haven't heard any system at even 3x what I've spent in my components that fully would entice me away. And since ongoing tweaks spend keeps the signature sound recognisable but wrings more and more from my gear, it makes perfect sense, for me at least.

 

[DaveC]

And since ongoing tweaks spend keeps the signature sound recognisable but wrings more and more from my gear, it makes perfect sense, for me at least.

As long as your priorities in sound reproduction... and your budget... align with the compromises made by your system... mainly the speakers... I'd agree.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Dave, that's a little bit loaded. But I've learnt to roll w anti Zu comments. It's interesting to realise I'd not get these retorts if I owned the usual suspects Wilson, Magico etc.

 

[DaveC]

Dave, that's a little bit loaded. But I've learnt to roll w anti Zu comments. It's interesting to realise I'd not get these retorts if I owned the usual suspects Wilson, Magico etc.

Not what I intended at all.

Speakers are the most compromised part of any audio system and the designer of speakers must choose among many compromises. If those compromises align with your priorities as far as sound reproduction and budget, then you've chosen the right speaker and incremental improvements through "tweaks" whatever they may be, is the way to go imo.

An example might be, given a $2k budget for speakers (low, but low cost = more compromise to make my point), a good small single driver vs a JBL Pro Audio speaker with 12" woofers. The choice is according to your priorities, someone into Led Zeppelin and rock exclusively is going to love the JBLs and someone into girl w/guitar music is going to love the single drivers, but not vice versa.

So what I'm saying is, if the Zu's best align with your priorities and what you want to spend, it makes no sense to replace them.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure Dave. Sorry to be snappy. The word compromises can be read in many ways. Yes, my Zus do fit w my musical preferences of predominantly prog rock, fusion and electric jazz. But what I'm particularly happy about is that my tweaking has maxxed their performance envelope for much more neutrality, imaging and transparency, so that my classical and jazz collection is taking off. My Zus are now not the poor relation of those spkrs best suited to acoustic music buffs.

 

[DaveC]

Sure Dave. Sorry to be snappy. The word compromises can be read in many ways. Yes, my Zus do fit w my musical preferences of predominantly prog rock, fusion and electric jazz. But what I'm particularly happy about is that my tweaking has maxxed their performance envelope for much more neutrality, imaging and transparency, so that my classical and jazz collection is taking off. My Zus are now not the poor relation of those spkrs best suited to acoustic music buffs.

No problem! I've been working on what's basically the same system for many years, well over a decade actually. Still SET amp and wideband driver based, although I did add a 2nd 3-way speaker/amp system about 5 years ago.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Dave, my time on WBF has been equally split on defending my choice of Zu, defending my spending decisions on tweaks, and my choice on deciding to have spent on tweaked Zus LOL. I'm kinda shelled out on being defensive, the Zus for no money at all in high end terms have an uncanny knack in being highly communicative. Tweaking them has resulted in a more rounded, open sound, so bridging the gap to the pricier and more sophisticated alternatives out there without losing their core sonic appeal. I'd rather gild the lily than dig up the flower bed.