VAC 452 iQ review in Stereophile

[Carlos269]

exactly for me it was bringing home a mastering preamplifier and its immense capacity to alter the sound to your personal preference

the whole recording industry is based on tweaking the sound of the original event

i have no idea why some audiophile think it needs to be treated with “neutrality” since there is no way of knowing what that exactly ever was ?

Well stated. What befuddles me is how many intelligent and successful individuals fail to see this and figure it out over time. That is why I refer to it as “Scientology”.

 

[spiritofmusic]

sure I am sure your enjoying it, and good luck to you
mine is even longer but I don’t speak “ex cathedra” about neutrality

I have five turntables and more than a dozen cartridges and they all sound different, so to me the contruct of “neutrality “ is quite simply an oxymoron

I can agree with your assumption that your current system is the best you have heard, “ but neutral” I am sorry but what is that ?

the only definition I can conceive scientifically is you went and got the master tapes and performed a null test with your rig and they compared favourable to some known db level

Nope, I'm never likely to do that. And even if I could, every different R2R machine and head amp will make the same tape sound different. And on goes the endless Möbius Loop of pointless descriptors in this hobby, of which I am 100% guilty of.
For me, hearing way greater variations disc to disc ie less homogeneity in my lp collection, and a deeper conviction that instruments sound way more accurate (greater exposure to live classical invaluable for this), is my benchmark. And that's all it is. Mine.

 

[awsmone]

Lol the word neutrality should be avoided , even banned , unless people are performing null tests , which are commonly used in the recording industry, but audiophiles think they are antithetical

 

[awsmone]

Nope, I'm never likely to do that. And even if I could, every different R2R machine and head amp will make the same tape sound different. And on goes the endless Möbius Loop of pointless descriptors in this hobby, of which I am 100% guilty of.
For me, hearing way greater variations disc to disc ie less homogeneity in my lp collection, and a deeper conviction that instruments sound way more accurate (greater exposure to live classical invaluable for this), is my benchmark. And that's all it is. Mine.

Hmm your really amusing as you don’t get any of the references to “oxymoron” and “ex cathedra”

Didn’t you just contradicted your own argument ... “every different R2R MACHINE .....will make the same tape sound different “....so what’s neutral

 

[microstrip]

exactly for me it was bringing home a mastering preamplifier and its immense capacity to alter the sound to your personal preference

the whole recording industry is based on tweaking the sound of the original event

i have no idea why some audiophile think it needs to be treated with “neutrality” since there is no way of knowing what that exactly ever was ?

IMHO full neutrality is essentially a marketing need. It is much easier to market something assuring the buyer that he is getting the art exactly as the creators wanted it - something it is not fully possible in stereo. Consumers are not interested of prepared to dig in the perceptual mechanisms of stereo and to accept that noise and distortion are part of great sound delivery.

Most of the time each manufacturer marketing literature tries to show he is more neutral and true to the music than the competition!

 

[awsmone]

Nope, I'm never likely to do that. And even if I could, every different R2R machine and head amp will make the same tape sound different. And on goes the endless Möbius Loop of pointless descriptors in this hobby, of which I am 100% guilty of.
For me, hearing way greater variations disc to disc ie less homogeneity in my lp collection, and a deeper conviction that instruments sound way more accurate (greater exposure to live classical invaluable for this), is my benchmark. And that's all it is. Mine.

and just for education isn’t the age old claim of “ oh I compare it to experience of live music” just an ad verecundiam fallacy

 

[morricab]

Agree. The “come to Jesus moment” is that since the advent of the “Audiophile pursuit”, the goal as it has related to amplification has been the concept or philosophy of a “straight wire with gain”. The irony is that today many of the “purists” in this hobby, one of which I am not, still preach about faithful “what goes in is what comes out” while reveling in euphonic coloration. My question above was, how many actually know and acknowledge that what they are enjoying and effervescently spouting about is a result of “dreaded” spectral distortions.

For the record, I stopped being a purist in this hobby around 20 years ago, when my explorations into the mastering world exposed me to methods and techniques, to enrich recordings and playback enjoyment, which broke the purist Audiophile’s cardinal rules.

The problem with being a "non-purist" is that it introduces a lot of other distortions that are not only audible but often detrimental. Distortions absolute...not so important, distortions relative to audibility and annoyance...much more imortant. If an equalizer adds an electronic "haze" over the sound then that can ruin the sound even if you have corrected the FR perferctly.

 

[morricab]

and just for education isn’t the age old claim of “ oh I compare it to experience of live music” just an ad verecundiam fallacy

It has some validity, especially when you mix in your own, unmanipulated recordings

 

[morricab]

and just for education isn’t the age old claim of “ oh I compare it to experience of live music” just an ad verecundiam fallacy

How is an appeal to what you hear live an appeal to authority? It is a comparison of auditory memory perhaps but who is the authority??

 

[spiritofmusic]

and just for education isn’t the age old claim of “ oh I compare it to experience of live music” just an ad verecundiam fallacy

Hey, this is the first time I've been beaten up by an assailant wielding Latin as weapon of choice. You're not Boris Johnson by any chance? Lol

 

[Carlos269]

The problem with being a "non-purist" is that it introduces a lot of other distortions that are not only audible but often detrimental. Distortions absolute...not so important, distortions relative to audibility and annoyance...much more imortant. If an equalizer adds an electronic "haze" over the sound then that can ruin the sound even if you have corrected the FR perferctly.

Brad, nowadays most of this is done in the digital domain. Rest at ease with the “haze”. For the most part, high-end mastering equipment is designed for transparency and doest not vail the sound. The big divide between, the audiophile and mastering world is that in the mastering world you must know what you are doing and what each knob or pushbutton does or it will go horribly wrong real quickly if your approach is amateurish.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Agree. The “come to Jesus moment” is that since the advent of the “Audiophile pursuit”, the goal as it has related to amplification has been the concept or philosophy of a “straight wire with gain”. The irony is that today many of the “purists” in this hobby, one of which I am not, still preach about faithful “what goes in is what comes out” while reveling in euphonic coloration. My question above was, how many actually know and acknowledge that what they are enjoying and effervescently spouting about is a result of “dreaded” spectral distortions.

For the record, I stopped being a purist in this hobby around 20 years ago, when my explorations into the mastering world exposed me to methods and techniques, to enrich recordings and playback enjoyment, which broke the purist Audiophile’s cardinal rules.

Beyond not knowing wtf is a come to Jesus moment you seem to be here to preach and look down on us poor misguided and misinformed Audiophiles! and the only prophet have been going on about seems more about you and your own breathtaking awareness.

Straight wire with gain as a notion is old school and hardly mainstream thinking and most here no longer engage in simplistic melodrama about the natures of distortion. Do something unexpected, define the nature of various orders of distortion as it relates to the human condition and our experiences. Truth is you have brought nothing new or particularly worthy to the table. Mostly rattling on and just empty noises with plenty of accompanied inflation and hubris.

 

[Carlos269]

Beyond not knowing wtf is a come to Jesus moment you seem to be here to preach and look down on us poor misguided and misinformed Audiophiles! and the only prophet have been going on about seems more about you and your own breathtaking awareness.

Straight wire with gain as a notion is old school and hardly mainstream thinking and most here no longer engage in simplistic melodrama about the natures of distortion. Do something unexpected, define the nature of various orders of distortion as it relates to the human condition and our experiences. Truth is you have brought nothing new or particularly worthy to the table. Mostly rattling on and just empty noises with plenty of inflation and hubris.

Dear Sound of Tao, with all due respect, some of these discussions and philosophical explorations can become intellectually taxing and rigorous.....You may want to sit this one out.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Dear Sound of Tao, with all due respect, some of these discussions and philosophical explorations can become intellectually taxing and rigorous.....You may want to sit this one out.

Hey, sitting is what we audiophiles do best. Beats standing and lecturing on a soapbox lol.
Btw, do you think us hicks don't know how mangled and pulled apart/stuck together again the vast majority of our music is?
That's why when you hear an unrestrained unadulterated recording that sings and soars, you immediately think, that's it.
We all like a bit of sauce w our steak. But sometimes you just like to taste the sizzle. Mustard on yr burger? Sometimes yes...and sometimes no.
Big Mac in the bin?...or Big Mac in the bin.
For me, the sizzle is in my sources (not sauces) and the sauce is in my amps and spkrs.
And now I must crack open yet another beer in Covid insanity world.

 

[Carlos269]

Beyond not knowing wtf is a come to Jesus moment you seem to be here to preach and look down on us poor misguided and misinformed Audiophiles! and the only prophet have been going on about seems more about you and your own breathtaking awareness.

Straight wire with gain as a notion is old school and hardly mainstream thinking and most here no longer engage in simplistic melodrama about the natures of distortion. Do something unexpected, define the nature of various orders of distortion as it relates to the human condition and our experiences. Truth is you have brought nothing new or particularly worthy to the table. Mostly rattling on and just empty noises with plenty of accompanied inflation and hubris.

Be warned that Ron the moderator doesn’t like personal attacks like yours, above, and he might delete your post. Tongue in cheek I know, but I seemed to have struck a nerve with you, as you constantly keep coming after me. How may I help you?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Come on guys , i know there happen to be a lot of prophets but afaik they all left the earth ,

Wonder why lol.


Lets stay on topic this thread is about a beautifull new amplifier design .
Has anybody heard it ???

 

[the sound of Tao]

Dear Sound of Tao, with all due respect, some of these discussions and philosophical explorations can become intellectually taxing and rigorous.....You may want to sit this one out.

There is zero respect Carlos... intellectually taxing and rigorous lol empty empty empty keep it up dude

 

[the sound of Tao]

Be warned that Ron the moderator doesn’t like personal attacks like yours, above, and he might delete your post. Tongue in cheek I know, but I seemed to have struck a nerve with you, as you constantly keep coming after me. How may I help you?

You’re warning me now Carlos??

 

[treitz3]

Gentlemen, please stop with the personal attacks. They are against the TOS of this board. Please consider this an official warning. Thanks for understanding and complying.

Tom

 

[tony22]

Lets stay on topic this thread is about a beautifull new amplifier design .
Has anybody heard it ???

If these were the ones at CAF 2019, then yes. (Look at me, coming out of nowhere to address the item in the OP! ). I don’t believe I have any particular bias one way or another with respect to SS or tubes, but hearing my Endeavor SEs (the very ones at that show, BTW ) driven by all 4 of those monster monoblocks produced a sound that to me was just glorious. While I don’t know for sure if these VACs can be considered among the best amps currently available (and I do not wish to venture into that maelstrom), I do know that they told me the E SEs are not going to be any kind of limiting factor when partnered with “higher echelon” equipment. That’s all I needed to conclude. It was among the best show listening experiences I’ve had, for whatever that’s worth to anyone else.