Visit to Henk van der Hoeven -- Apogee Acoustics Re-builder/Restorer

[spiritofmusic]

Frantz, thanx for the "gentleman" label LOL
This thread has been a delight in not turning into the usual bunfight typical of WBF

Agreed on the Vandys v Apogees comparison not being a direct correlation. But the tone was so full, rich and soulful from the drivers the Transmitters were powering that my skepticism on the Divas is much tempered

Michael, I'm going to pass on your stacked Quad ESL57 suggestion.
The most disappointing demo I ever had in the high end was 63's in an all-Quad digital rig, and the lack of dynamics and bass grunt left me cold. There is a UK guy who does stacked 57's for less than £10k, but I'm not sure I can be bothered. And according to Ked we were probably listening more '80s dBs than 75.

CJ, my initial foray into all of this is going to be demoing Transmitters powering Analysis Omegas. This will give me a good idea if I like the tone and grip of NAT SETetrodes on ribbons. I will then demo Duettas and Divas on SS in two or three systems. I'll at this point have my reference points of three ribbons, NAT capability on ribbons, and tetrodes v SS.
All the while fine tuning my current Zu system in the new space.
Finally I'll aim to travel to the US, hear the new Zu Experiences flagship at Zu HQ in Utah and a pair of Graz Diva Ultimates with Rich at True Sounds in Nevada, and make a final decision based on all these experiences

Gives me sufficient space to get the £20k to £25k needed for going Divas/Transmitters or Zu Experiences

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . Apogees: fuller, creamier sound Analysis: . . . less of the tasty fullness in the bass panel. . . . I think the Analysis implementation is better sounding than Maggies, but doesn't quite have the Apogee charm in the lower midrange. . . .

I found all of this to be exactly correct to my ears, too.

I think the two biggest Analysis Audio speakers are an easy way to get better sound than Magnepans (trading a rock solid company for slightly to moderately better sound from a small, far-away company) and some of the best of the Apogees. (I also feel that the AAs do not have as much as the Magnepans do the need to be "kicked alive" with decent volume.)

Another way to put it, I believe, is that from about 250 Hz on up there are several ways (several products) to get wonderful sound from panels (both ribbons and electrostatics), but from about 50 Hz to about 250 Hz nothing beats an Apogee woofer panel.

 

[bonzo75]

Marc, I can already predict here you will buy the zus. Nothing to do with sonics.

And if you are travelling for Apogees Analysis, here is my recommended itinerary

1. Henk for Grands and Duetta
2. Frankfurt for FR and Trio with bass horns
3. Peter's for NAT + Omega
4. Either NY for TWS Duettas with Valves or directly Nevada
5. Leipzig for Western Electric 16A.

Sufficient to get what Apogees can do, what Analysis with NAT can do, and compare to the best of horns.

 

[henk]

Well, not really

They were, but he sold them to a good friend of his. He is now listening to his studio grands....

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . It would be an interesting system if the ESL could match with the FR bass panel and Maggie ribbon tweeter! That is a dream

I agree completely with the driver complement in this dream! And, as long as we are dreaming, I would add crossing the Full Range woofer panel over to Gryphon Pendragon bass towers at 30 Hz or 40 Hz!

 

[bonzo75]

Someone who modded the analysis crossovers told me that the sound is better if the crossover box is open instead of close. Similar external filter box with caps and resistors. Has anyone experimented with this?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, you've missed out me visiting Utah for Zus.
Zus will get chosen if the voicing of Apogees just doesn't "speak" to me in the same emotional way
Despite your words, any decision on Zus will be only for their sonics, what other reasons are there to buy gear?
The sound in my room is potentially going to be so different, and recent changes to my rig had been so positive before I packed things up, and the vibe on Graz Apogees is bordering on the religious, that I truly go into things with a curious, open mind
So Ked, please give me a little credit at least of taking up your long term advice to travel and listen

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, you've missed out Utah for Zus.
Zus will get chosen if the voicing of Apogees just doesn't "speak" to me in the same emotional way
The sound in my room is potentially going to be so different, and recent changes to my rig had been so positive before I packed things up, and the vibe on Graz Apogees is bordering on the religious, that I truly go into things with a curious, open mind
So Ked, please give me a little credit at least of taking up your long term advice to travel and listen

Nevada and Utah can be done in one go. There is a shuttle from Vegas to Utah that takes 2 hours. Also meet DDK to listen to his Turntables. You are not going to get to compare Thorens Ref, EMT 927, American Sounds with a modern TT like Techdas again.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Good advice
Btw, and I know you have zero interest in Zu, and this is not the thread for them, the new flagship is taking a lot of tech cues from Rockport and promises to be a really interesting product
Well, to me anyhow LOL

 

[bonzo75]

Good advice
Btw, and I know you have zero interest in Zu, and this is not the thread for them, the new flagship is taking a lot of tech cues from Rockport and promises to be a really interesting product
Well, to me anyhow LOL

Yes, Lloyd does say great things about Zus new flagship, the Arrakis

 

[spiritofmusic]

Moving swiftly on...

 

[christoph]

Very clever idea
And how pretty they are.
Very tasteful

 

[spiritofmusic]

Christopher,
I've never seen anything in the high end described as "pretty" LOL
But my GF, who on a scale of '1 to 10' re interest in hifi comes out as 'minus infinity' has commented that the bespoke Divas and FRs on HiFiAdvice with their contrasting coloured mids/treble ribbon frame-bass ribbon frame, and non box shape, are "pretty cool".

 

[bonzo75]

I would go with a car colour. Gloss black with gloss grey or something

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, my room is going to have a grey motif
Grey painted walls, carpet and exposed steel beams
All grey, all black, or a mixture of both should be fine

 

[Zero000]

I nearly pimped mine with some very interesting automotive finsihes - as applied to some US custom car paint jobs.

 

[spiritofmusic]

You don't really need to Justin, since you have that psychedelic light show going on projecting thru the bass ribbons
I believe you can get lighting that responds to musical cues, frequencies etc, or maybe even to your own mood
Groovy, man!

 

[Zero000]

It is really odd but I can't sit down and listen without those lights switched on. They're only £15 remote control LEDs - even John Lewis sell them.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I used to run Hovland HP200 pre and Radia power, and the blue backlighting on both was SOOOO relaxing

Of course Justin, you need some more evocative light sources illuminating the music too, go back to your 211s

My Straingauge cart glows blue as it tracks across my lp's

This is a whole other thread

 

[spiritofmusic]

Maybe I should try my Hovland combo on any Apogee I end up buying
The Radia is good to 125W/ch into 8 Ohms, and 200 into 4.
HP200 and Radia were my first proper tastes of high end refinement in 2005, and my first realisation of the hypnotic ability of tubes