Visit to Henk van der Hoeven -- Apogee Acoustics Re-builder/Restorer

[spiritofmusic]

CJ,
The venture into Apogees is different from anything I've attempted upgrading before
It's akin to a potential move to horns
But this would be an easier progression because I already am wedded to SETs which work with horns as well as my Zus
It's become REASONABLY well established that I can contemplate my SE2SEs on the mids and treble ribbons on the Divas. In fact Rich of True Sounds successfully uses tubes on his FR mids and treble ribbons. Well, I have the very SE2SEs this enthusiastic guy has
My dilemma is really venturing on how to drive those Divas bass ribbons
The concensus is tubes will struggle to cut the mustard, but can I find a reasonably priced alternative that will meld with the SE2SEs. There's a reasonable chance these AVA Vfet hybrids may fit the bill, and also the Sanders Magtechs
Let me speak to your contact

 

[Zero000]

Justin, are you toying with me?
Given the choice of your Duettas and Omegas at the same price, you would plump for the Omegas?

Nope.

Doesn't look as nice visually. Don't like the way the MRT is longer than the bass panel. Paint finish looks sub-standard i.e. not top quality automotive.

Has a simplified bass panel using just straight strips of foil. Ever wondered why they don't show it off? That is the reason I think.

Doesn't have sufficient frame bracing or substantial stands.

Doesn't sound as dynamic.

However it does sound pretty damned good and is the first planar magnetic speaker I ever heard.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, you WERE toying with me
Unless you were suggesting that as a died in the wool tubes man I'd prefer the Omegas over the Duettas with Peter's speakers demoed with NATs
Justin, I'm trying to secure a demo of the next nice pair of Duettas that Jon is putting together
I believe just the crossovers are left to finalise
This will likely be my first proper exposure to what Apogee has to offer
In short order my trip to hear Henk's Divas will hopefully happen, and in meantime the Omegas/NATs trial
Outside possibility of Rich's Divas next year
Should this be enough to get my bearings
Tbh your's are the only other experience I might have had additionally

 

[BruceD]

BruceD

 

[bonzo75]

Unless you were suggesting that as a died in the wool tubes man I'd prefer the Omegas over the Duettas with Peter's speakers demoed with NATs

Objection, your honor, Marc is leading...

Unless you want Justin to tell you that

 

[bonzo75]

OMG!! - Kip has his FRs with Micro Seiki 5000 and a Studer.

 

[thekong]

That looks like a Thomas Schick arm at the back! The other arm is a FR64S?

BTW, very nice system setup

 

[Zero000]

I could cope with that little setup, though the speaker covers would go straight down to the local car paint shop pretty quickly.

That sorted, then very, very nice.

 

[Zero000]

So, you WERE toying with me

Yup. To an extent. Just trying to increase your confusion over the matter for standing me up twice LOL. I'd still listen to the Omega as it is defo NAT friendly.

I suggest you turn up at Jon's and not boycott. If you don't turn up you will lose all credibiltiy and get noted as a time waster not only by me, but by Jon, Henk, Graz etc.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Just spoken to Peter re his Omegas, and his waving the flag for running them with NATs
I understand he's likely to be naturally biased in being a dealer for both brands, but all of this cant deny the fact that if the consensus on Apogee bass ribbons is correct in being a terribly steep/impractical load for SETs, just how can the Omega bass ribbons really be any easier?
Surely the same caveats apply?

 

[bonzo75]

Just spoken to Peter re his Omegas, and his waving the flag for running them with NATs
I understand he's likely to be naturally biased in being a dealer for both brands, but all of this cant deny the fact that if the consensus on Apogee bass ribbons is correct in being a terribly steep/impractical load for SETs, just how can the Omega bass ribbons really be any easier?
Surely the same caveats apply?

Peter is quite fair, as you know, but he hasn't heard these restored Apogees.

The Analysis is a different speaker. So are the maggies. The material, the way you clamp and suspend the ribbon, the crossover points, are different. What you want to feel in the listening seat differs greatly between the the Analysis and Apogees. And, as you observed on another thread, there is no consensus.

You have just seen a FR with NATs and
another one planning it with CATs so
maybe you should go BATs,
if you are not already?

 

[spiritofmusic]

I am not a fan of BAT at all
Had various models in for demo a while back, and their euphonic warmth left me cold

 

[bonzo75]

I am not a fan of BAT at all
Had various models in for demo a while back, and their euphonic warmth left me cold

That was just my rap song

 

[thekong]

Yup. To an extent. Just trying to increase your confusion over the matter ...........

I am pretty sure Marc is in enough confusion already

I suppose he is not yet aware that, with active Xover, he could fine tune the sound with slightly different Xover frequencies and slopes, which could make a load of difference!

Of course, that is a whole different can of worms

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hmm Ked,
Maybe you ought to start AWA
Audiophiles With Attitude
Youd have no shortage of potential bandmates

 

[spiritofmusic]

Michael, just how intuitive is it to use the Pass Labs XRV1 or First Watt F4 in actively biamping the Divas?
Tbh, it's quite a leap to go Divas and try and sort the right kind of SS or hybrid/v-fet, and SET strategy for them...
...and then try and blend the whole lot into my room with the Pass or First
Are these units easy/intuitive to operate as a newbie with no dealer backup?

 

[Graz - APOGEE ACOUSTICS]

Nice to see Kip's room on here. I enjoyed my interaction with Kip, memorable. About 8-9 years ago he was actually my last "diy bass installation" restoration client, and we went through the experience of restoring a Scintilla. Like some other Apogee owners who get a measure of satisfaction from one Apogee, he was also looking to exceed after a while, and not only got some Full Ranges restored via our USA-West Installer Rich, but built a listening room to accommodate them! Dedication : ) I will email him regarding this thread.

An earlier referral was made to the online comparisons thread at Stereo Times (repro from Hifi Advice) - the "restored" candidates had an interesting life prior to being reviewed, they were a basic "bass only" replacement, with the original client making his own take on a crossover, that omitted some of the filter amongst other things - leading to some serious over driving of the KLM2 MRTW. The client had a go at his own tuning to accommodate the crossover anomalies, with negative results. They were sold, stored, then brought out for play and written about. Some time in the near future they will be going to the Installer for all their needs to be met with a comprehensive restoration, by the book

Comparisons to other planars. Apogee's are Apogees, and all that use the correct planar bass formula have a similar theme of presentation. Some excel in some areas more than others, some have a fair measure of everything. I of course am biassed, and vested. Analysis, I once considered the construction to assist a person, and as an engineer would describe them as Magnepan's in Apogee-styled jackets. Distinctly different in construction, sound, and "mo" to classic Apogees, and certainly the modern Apogee's.


Take care - Graz

 

[spiritofmusic]

Got you Graz
Like comparing apples and oranges, as we Brits say

Btw, the Pass Labs XRV1 looks pretty daunting, but is it a case of simply dialling in the Divas crossover points to start ie 550Hz and 12kHz to get one up and started?
And then fine tuning the response from that point?

 

[Graz - APOGEE ACOUSTICS]

Michael, just how intuitive is it to use the Pass Labs XRV1 or First Watt F4 in actively biamping the Divas?
Tbh, it's quite a leap to go Divas and try and sort the right kind of SS or hybrid/v-fet, and SET strategy for them...
...and then try and blend the whole lot into my room with the Pass or First
Are these units easy/intuitive to operate as a newbie with no dealer backup?

With Divas dialled for semi active operation, the electronic crossover is between the bass and the MR/TW. The MR retains it's upper shaping, and the TW all of it's crossover. Full active operation (direct drive) that removes all of the passive crossover requires personality line level cards for this shaping (the DAX-Diva has this). Some may achieve this in the digital domain, subject to preferences, and appropriate amplifiers.

 

[bonzo75]

Analysis, I once considered the construction to assist a person, and as an engineer would describe them as Magnepan's in Apogee-styled jackets. Distinctly different in construction, sound, and "mo" to classic Apogees, and certainly the modern Apogee's.


Take care - Graz

Graz, if this was a gentleman from the UK, I know him. He did mention wanting to send, or having sent, an Analysis to you for refurbishment. At that time, I was unfortunately less knowledgable and not yet a fan of this Graz guy, so let it pass