Visit to Marc C.'s (SpiritOfMusic's) House in England

[DaveC]

Marc, you should really try running your system off one line instead of six using a simple power distributor like the Furutech e-TP609 NCF or Pure Power 6. The NCF distributors reduce noise measurably and passively, there is no inductive or capacitive filtering. In noisy environments using emi/rfi filters can be the best solution, like at audio shows, but for most residential applications I think a passive distributor is best.

You use SETs and have efficient speakers, so not a ton of amp power and nothing else takes all that much power. The advantage of using one line is all the grounds will be combined or connected together in the distributor. This can make a big difference, especially if the components you use don't isolate the IEC ground from chassis and signal ground, and you use single ended (RCA) interconnect cables. In this case the interconnect grounds and the IEC ground makes the same electrical connection, meaning the power cable ground is in the signal path.

Also, it's best to use the same AC power connectors throughout your system. Don't mix platings, and if you can upgrade your IEC inlets to ones that match your plugs all the better. I'd recommend going all-in on Furutech rhodium-plated NCF AC power products. I've had dozens of customers do that over the years and have only received extremely enthusiastic feedback.

I've always kept my system as simple as possible, and I need a very good reason to make it more complicated. I started with a SET and single driver, and now have 3-way horns and added a bass amp, my SET now has multiple power supplies and a driver that uses 8 triodes, but anytime I've added anything to my system has been a result of achieving a particular goal and been well tested. A 2-ch audio system just doesn't need to be that complicated and it can often get in it's own way if it is.

 

[Kingrex]

I like multiple circuits. Amps of any size seriously distort the sine wave. Its the caps in the power supply demand power NOW, then slam shut when full. Easy to see on a scope. They drag down the leading edge of the sine wave when transients hit. You want as much metal as possible to reduce reactions between front end gear and amps. Thats the bus in the panel. #10 branch wire or 2/0 bus.

And there is 0 difference between a star distributed power strip and star distribution in a panel. People F their panels up all the time. And mistakes in a loadcenter with Aluminum neutrals and grounds only exacerbate the issue. And a screw tbrough the neutral into the can to bond the ground bar to the neutral bar through a steel enclosure is such a joke. But its the NEC way.

I agree with most else that Dave says. I hear a lot of people like the Rhodium NCF. I have noticed Rhodium hardly tarnishes at all. Its a horrible conductor. Not sure why people say its so good. I have one I have not installed yet. I still use Hubbell 5362 cryo treated. Also had a oyaide for a while. It was a little less of something annoying than the Hubbell.

 

[PeterA]

I also don't know what your isolation transformer is. There are a lot of less than optimum filters out there. Isolation transormers included. I find the American audio systems I hear are very colored. Its the aluminum based loadcenter to a Shunyata filter with Audiophile cables to a high power amp and low efficiency speakers. Its a sound built upon layers.

Rex, does this really describe most or all of the American systems you’ve heard?

 

[Lagonda]

Marc, are you still using your super-tweeters ?

 

[PeterA]

Marc, are you still using your super-tweeters ?

Great question, and how about all of those panels on the sloped ceiling and knee walls?

Marc, have you revisited the stock power cords that came with your gear?

 

[Kingrex]

Rex, does this really describe most or all of the American systems you’ve heard?

Every stereo has a color. My comment point at a type of stereo with a sound I don't gravitate to. That does not mean its wrong. My very good friend Bob who goes to all the shows with me does not like my stereo, nor I care for his. I respect he has built a well tuned stereo that performs at a very high level. But that does not mean I have to like the way it plays and desire it in my room.

I am usually honest and will tell someone if I hear a fault in their system. Like Marcs guests telling him they heard something. I will also let someone know if I hear a system that is excellent at what it does. I have been stunned by a Boulder/Magico with Esoteric CD player direct to the amp. Also stunned by a Wilson AllexV with AR Ref 160 fed by Esoteric again. Fantastic. But not what I want to build.

A perfect power supply won't change a systems overall character. A optimum power supply will only let it express all it has more fully with less faults due to additional colorations. Both those systems I put my hands on the power supply. I helped.them along some. But the owners had done a very good job of setting them up. They were already well tuned.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Marc, are you still using your super-tweeters ?

If you mean the Airblades, they're not supertweeters.They're very easily tested on and off.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Great question, and how about all of those panels on the sloped ceiling and knee walls?

Marc, have you revisited the stock power cords that came with your gear?

Peter, those ceiling panels are fixed, I'm not dismantling them.
Stock power cords long gone, and my Furutechs are US sockets, so any comparison wouldn't have been possible anyhow.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Marc, you should really try running your system off one line instead of six using a simple power distributor like the Furutech e-TP609 NCF or Pure Power 6. The NCF distributors reduce noise measurably and passively, there is no inductive or capacitive filtering. In noisy environments using emi/rfi filters can be the best solution, like at audio shows, but for most residential applications I think a passive distributor is best.

You use SETs and have efficient speakers, so not a ton of amp power and nothing else takes all that much power. The advantage of using one line is all the grounds will be combined or connected together in the distributor. This can make a big difference, especially if the components you use don't isolate the IEC ground from chassis and signal ground, and you use single ended (RCA) interconnect cables. In this case the interconnect grounds and the IEC ground makes the same electrical connection, meaning the power cable ground is in the signal path.

Also, it's best to use the same AC power connectors throughout your system. Don't mix platings, and if you can upgrade your IEC inlets to ones that match your plugs all the better. I'd recommend going all-in on Furutech rhodium-plated NCF AC power products. I've had dozens of customers do that over the years and have only received extremely enthusiastic feedback.

I've always kept my system as simple as possible, and I need a very good reason to make it more complicated. I started with a SET and single driver, and now have 3-way horns and added a bass amp, my SET now has multiple power supplies and a driver that uses 8 triodes, but anytime I've added anything to my system has been a result of achieving a particular goal and been well tested. A 2-ch audio system just doesn't need to be that complicated and it can often get in it's own way if it is.

Thanks for the input. I've gone with six lines and not sure if I have the willpower to strip five out at this late stage.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I like multiple circuits. Amps of any size seriously distort the sine wave. Its the caps in the power supply demand power NOW, then slam shut when full. Easy to see on a scope. They drag down the leading edge of the sine wave when transients hit. You want as much metal as possible to reduce reactions between front end gear and amps. Thats the bus in the panel. #10 branch wire or 2/0 bus.

And there is 0 difference between a star distributed power strip and star distribution in a panel. People F their panels up all the time. And mistakes in a loadcenter with Aluminum neutrals and grounds only exacerbate the issue. And a screw tbrough the neutral into the can to bond the ground bar to the neutral bar through a steel enclosure is such a joke. But its the NEC way.

I agree with most else that Dave says. I hear a lot of people like the Rhodium NCF. I have noticed Rhodium hardly tarnishes at all. Its a horrible conductor. Not sure why people say its so good. I have one I have not installed yet. I still use Hubbell 5362 cryo treated. Also had a oyaide for a while. It was a little less of something annoying than the Hubbell.

I was really anxious that multiple lines would introduce ground loops and hum but that thankfully hasn't arisen. Regarding single versus multiple lines, now I'm possibly hearing an optimum iteration of my sound, I'm very happy I went with multiple lines.
That's not to say a single line with a distro strip might not have been "better".
But as things currently sound, I have zero compulsion to try.

 

[bonzo75]

I was really anxious

Yeah that showed over the years

 

[spiritofmusic]

We all have our crosses to bear.

 

[PeterA]

Every stereo has a color. My comment point at a type of stereo with a sound I don't gravitate to. That does not mean its wrong. My very good friend Bob who goes to all the shows with me does not like my stereo, nor I care for his. I respect he has built a well tuned stereo that performs at a very high level. But that does not mean I have to like the way it plays and desire it in my room.

I am usually honest and will tell someone if I hear a fault in their system. Like Marcs guests telling him they heard something. I will also let someone know if I hear a system that is excellent at what it does. I have been stunned by a Boulder/Magico with Esoteric CD player direct to the amp. Also stunned by a Wilson AllexV with AR Ref 160 fed by Esoteric again. Fantastic. But not what I want to build.

A perfect power supply won't change a systems overall character. A optimum power supply will only let it express all it has more fully with less faults due to additional colorations. Both those systems I put my hands on the power supply. I helped.them along some. But the owners had done a very good job of setting them up. They were already well tuned.

Rex, I was actually asking you if all the systems you hear in America have some kind of filter Shunyata box to big, powerful solid-state amplifiers to inefficient speakers. Surely not all systems in America are like this. I’m just surprised that these are the only kind of systems you have heard in America.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Rex, I was actually asking you if all the systems you hear in America have some kind of filter Shunyata box to big, powerful solid-state amplifiers to inefficient speakers. Surely not all systems in America are like this. I’m just surprised that these are the only kind of systems you have heard in America.

That's the playbook for 90% of all stereos, surely? Big burly amps into big burly spkrs.
And any amount of filtering and conditioning and anti-noise measures.
As discussed on so many other threads.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

That's the playbook for 90% of all stereos, surely? Big burly amps into big burly spkrs.
And any amount of filtering and conditioning and anti-noise measures.
As discussed on so many other threads.

i think the generalizations about system 'heft' has more to do with living density/economics and home and room size than location/country/hemisphere. USA audiophiles tend to live in houses in suburbs, with rec rooms over multiple car garages or basements, more than Europe or Asia. and to 'some' degree have more disposable income, and have less time off and retire later.....maybe have/had a home theater.....and stay at home for off time.

there are many exceptions to the generalization....but certainly many more that do fit.

maybe new generations in the USA might have a slightly different circumstance.....yet to play out.

hifi dealers and manufacturers tend to cater to their customer situation with products that fit (fill the space/budget).

 

[Kingrex]

Rex, I was actually asking you if all the systems you hear in America have some kind of filter Shunyata box to big, powerful solid-state amplifiers to inefficient speakers. Surely not all systems in America are like this. I’m just surprised that these are the only kind of systems you have heard in America.

By far powerdull amps and low efficiency speakers are the dominant systems I have been asked to assist on. I have only seen 2 horn systems personally where I modified the power. I have seen 1 Devore and LAMM setup. There may be a couple horn systems I never personally saw. But mostly people are telling me they want to power systems with mono blocks and subs. There is close to a 40/60 mix of tube to SS high power amps. Lots and lots of digital front ends. More so than analog.

I just had a thought. I wonder if I was get those calls because people needing all that power know they need power, so they want it done right. The low power guys might feel they don't need much so they don't pay attention to it. Yet low power amps and high efficiency speakers are just as, if not more reactive to power. Low power high efficiency speakers amplify everything. The systems I touched as well as my own which is bordering low power. (PP40 watts or 845 SET - 96bd speakers) are very responsive to power. Look at Marc. He heard it.
I have run into a lot of Shunyata power filters. And people still hold onto the belief they don't need a lot of circuits because they feed the entire front end off a filter. Mistake. I have also seen a lot of filters go away when the power is done right. Mostly amps end up direct to the wall. Digital is the most in need of a filter no matter how good the power. Yet it plays a whole lot better with good power to the filter then via the filter to the network equipment and components themselves.

 

[bonzo75]

By far powerdull amps and low efficiency speakers are the dominant systems I have been asked to assist on. I have only seen 2 horn systems personally where I modified the power. I have seen 1 Devore and LAMM setup. There may be a couple horn systems I never personally saw. But mostly people are telling me they want to power systems with mono blocks and subs. There is close to a 40/60 mix of tube to SS high power amps. Lots and lots of digital front ends. More so than analog.

I just had a thought. I wonder if I was get those calls because people needing all that power know they need power, so they want it done right. The low power guys might feel they don't need much so they don't pay attention to it. Yet low power amps and high efficiency speakers are just as, if not more reactive to power. Low power high efficiency speakers amplify everything. The systems I touched as well as my own which is bordering low power. (PP40 watts or 845 SET - 96bd speakers) are very responsive to power. Look at Marc. He heard it.
I have run into a lot of Shunyata power filters. And people still hold onto the belief they don't need a lot of circuits because they feed the entire front end off a filter. Mistake. I have also seen a lot of filters go away when the power is done right. Mostly amps end up direct to the wall. Digital is the most in need of a filter no matter how good the power. Yet it plays a whole lot better with good power to the filter then via the filter to the network equipment and components themselves.

I wish you can do videos before and after the power. Especially the horns and the devore.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I wish you can do videos before and after the power. Especially the horns and the devore.

note to self; don't comment on video suggestions.

 

[bonzo75]

note to self; don't comment on video suggestions.

Make sticky please

 

[PeterA]

i think the generalizations about system 'heft' has more to do with living density/economics and home and room size than location/country/hemisphere. USA audiophiles tend to live in houses in suburbs, with rec rooms over multiple car garages or basements, more than Europe or Asia. and to 'some' degree have more disposable income, and have less time off and retire later.....maybe have/had a home theater.....and stay at home for off time.

there are many exceptions to the generalization....but certainly many more that do fit.

maybe new generations in the USA might have a slightly different circumstance.....yet to play out.

hifi dealers and manufacturers tend to cater to their customer situation with products that fit (fill the space/budget).

Given the same medium or large rec room in the suburbs for the typical American audio file, a high-efficiency horn system, and SET amplifiers fit that generalization just as well as monster, solid-state amps, and inefficient tower speakers do. And in such a house, you can work on your power delivery and might not need the Shunyata filters that Rex describes he sees in many places.