Visit to Marc C.'s (SpiritOfMusic's) House in England

[BruceD]

If I can butt in gentleman into this intriguing Thread

I'd consider the Ocellias, Musical Affairs, Boenicke

Frankly any of those I've heard I much prefer to anything Avantgarde

Good Luck

Oh yes Davey --I think it is Mort

BruceD

 

[bonzo75]

 

[Blue58]

In support of Marc and Zu I have to admit that the soundstage portrayed on the Previn - Planets cut, from vinyl, was exemplary, probably the best I’ve heard in a domestic setting.
I played the same track, from CD rip, on my Duos yesterday and it was flat, with little depth but greater density and oomph. I’m guessing my Duo present it from a podium perspective whilst the Zu from a mid hall perspective.
It’s no wonder many visitors to mine, mainly classical lovers, dislike the Duo.
So the Zu got something right on that cut.
Marc has to get them do that trick every time.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Maybe a first, a guy who is going to withdraw from a thread written about his own system.

As the song goes, if I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all.

Tbh, I'm a bit fed up of having to justify my choices. Having to justify anything at all.

As Barry has just posted, the Andre Previn Planets recording thru his Duos didn't match up to what he heard thru my lowly Zus.

Even if this wasn't the case, so what? I like it just fine.

And off we go on the recommended list.

Go Harbeth. No don't, they're too close to Zu, go Duos instead. No, those Duos, don't touch them with a bargepole. Oh, Boenicke beats Duos. Duos are not horns, silly. Etc etc etc.

Can we just end it there, please. I'm v happy w my Zus. I could be happier elsewhere, but I'm not looking. If this gives some of you pause to think I'm misleading myself, fine. It's a free country.

I'm sorry to come off embittered, harsh. But if you read the start of the thread, Ron commented on liking my sound, Ive had as many visitors like my sound as not.

And Barry's Duos sound that I love has had his fair share of criticism from the some of the same guys who criticise my choices and sound.

I'm off for my ice bath now.

 

[morricab]

I ag


Remember, it is Marc who is wanting to keep his amps...I personally doubt that these amps will work great with a lot of speakers....and while they should work ok with the 40.2’s, I am not saying they are a match made in heaven.
If Marc’s amps put out about 40+ watts/ch...and will apparently put out 60watts/ch with the GM70 tubes, then they will have enough juice to drive the big Harbeths.
I asked Alex what he thought was a great speaker for 70’s rock, mainly because this is a tough question to answer. Some folks like horns on rock, I personally do not, but what is a great sounding speaker for rock.?
I have heard 40.2’s on several occasions, and they never fail to impress me...on all kinds of music. Are they the best speaker available, heck no...but they are an excellent speaker for the price and I think would give Marc what he is looking for in his size of room. ( and yes, he may have to part with his NAT’s...which also might be part of his problem, because perhaps they lock him down too much to a certain kind of speaker).
Like i stated before, there are a lot of great speakers out there, why not give some of them a try...instead of always bowing at the alter of Zu...

I know his amps...I would keep them too and think about how to get the best speaker to go with them...

 

[morricab]

If I can butt in gentleman into this intriguing Thread

I'd consider the Ocellias, Musical Affairs, Boenicke

Frankly any of those I've heard I much prefer to anything Avantgarde

Good Luck

Oh yes Davey --I think it is Mort

BruceD

View attachment 44821

The W13SE from Boenicke, while not really high in Sensitivity, still work well with medium power tubes. I will be using the slightly smaller W11SE in one of my rooms this weekend at the Swiss High End show. The other room will have the 92db Dynamikks Monitor 10SL...both being driven by Aries Cerat SET power.

 

[Zero000]

If I can butt in gentleman into this intriguing Thread

I'd consider the Ocellias, Musical Affairs, Boenicke

Frankly any of those I've heard I much prefer to anything Avantgarde

Good Luck

Oh yes Davey --I think it is Mort

BruceD

View attachment 44821

I once visted an Ocellia owner. Nice chap. Worst speakers I have ever heard that were actually owned by an audiophile. By a long shot.

I couldn't isolate any single parameter I thought they were good at. Driven by a Leben amp and Havana DAC. I felt dreadfully sorry for him. Really!

Sounds derogatory, but it was/is true.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I ag


Remember, it is Marc who is wanting to keep his amps...I personally doubt that these amps will work great with a lot of speakers....and while they should work ok with the 40.2’s, I am not saying they are a match made in heaven.
If Marc’s amps put out about 40+ watts/ch...and will apparently put out 60watts/ch with the GM70 tubes, then they will have enough juice to drive the big Harbeths.
I asked Alex what he thought was a great speaker for 70’s rock, mainly because this is a tough question to answer. Some folks like horns on rock, I personally do not, but what is a great sounding speaker for rock.?
I have heard 40.2’s on several occasions, and they never fail to impress me...on all kinds of music. Are they the best speaker available, heck no...but they are an excellent speaker for the price and I think would give Marc what he is looking for in his size of room. ( and yes, he may have to part with his NAT’s...which also might be part of his problem, because perhaps they lock him down too much to a certain kind of speaker).
Like i stated before, there are a lot of great speakers out there, why not give some of them a try...instead of always bowing at the alter of Zu...

Davey I also am never failing to be impressed by both the 30.1s and 40.2s. They are fantastic and as much for music lovers as they are for audiophiles.

I also don’t use my horns for rock... my Maggie 20.7s and Harby 40.2s are both much better at that, but I do completely looove my new horns for jazz... I am nothing if not predicable lol

The PureAudioProject open baffle horns with the Line Magnetic 805 amp with 300B drivers and a Microzotl upfront are proving just completely intoxicating... so yes, currently deliriously fuelled by both some jazz and shiraz... happy happy happy cheers to all music loving audio dudes! Marc may your journey bear lasting joy!!! Listen to your instincts and move bravely forwards and Zu will all be fine in the end!

 

[morricab]

Davey I also am never failing to be impressed by both the 30.1s and 40.2s. They are fantastic and as much for music lovers as they are for audiophiles.

I also don’t use my horns for rock... my Maggie 20.7s and Harby 40.2s are both much better at that, but I do completely looove my new horns for jazz... I am nothing if not predicable lol

The PureAudioProject open baffle horns with the Line Magnetic 805 amp with 300B drivers and a Microzotl upfront are proving just completely intoxicating... so yes, currently deliriously fuelled by both some jazz and shiraz... happy happy happy cheers to all music loving audio dudes! Marc may your journey bear lasting joy!!! Listen to your instincts and move bravely forwards and Zu will all be fine in the end!

So, you have the horn version of the PAP speakers and not a fullrange driver version (like Tangband or Voxativ)? I saw also there is a version with a Beyma AMT/horn assembly that might be intersting...

 

[the sound of Tao]

Yes, the PAP horn is doing it absolutely beautifully... it’s a magic bit of alchemy. Just playing them in now. They are the fifth pair of speakers to ever completely win me over... So I am technically polyamourspeakerous.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Graham, you need to start a dedicated thread on these.

A bit of fessing up on my part. I am finally becoming properly aware of hitting a glass ceiling w my Zus.

I still contend what they do well, I don't hear in many other spkrs in a similar price range.

And they've always responded to optimising, the biggest example being the move to my current room.

Any spkrs I move to will need to retain their inherent musicality, and add in terms of more extended faster more tuneful bass, and greater transparency into the upper mids lower treble.

I am seriously tempted by horns and Apogees. But contenders like Graham's PAP horn/OB spkrs interest me a lot too, not least because of very competitive pricing.

 

[PeterA]

In support of Marc and Zu I have to admit that the soundstage portrayed on the Previn - Planets cut, from vinyl, was exemplary, probably the best I’ve heard in a domestic setting.
I played the same track, from CD rip, on my Duos yesterday and it was flat, with little depth but greater density and oomph. I’m guessing my Duo present it from a podium perspective whilst the Zu from a mid hall perspective.
It’s no wonder many visitors to mine, mainly classical lovers, dislike the Duo.
So the Zu got something right on that cut.
Marc has to get them do that trick every time.

This is interesting and gets to the fundamental questions of how is the recording made and does the listener want a transparent system in which he hears the perspective on the recording or does he want every recording to sound the same with similar perspective?

On another thread a turntable is described as presenting a "mid hall" listening perspective. If that is with every recording, perhaps that turntable is not so transparent, and in fact imparts its own sound, or coloration, onto every recording.

IMO, there is no right or wrong because the listener makes his choice based on his preferences, but it is worth considering when assessing the quality of a component or system.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Peter, this was a weird conclusion from Barry, because if anything, classical on my Zus was always found wanting in my old room, and before my tt had the optimal set up it now enjoys.

The music I thought Barry was most going to enjoy, well recorded fusion guitarist Steve Morse on cd, was the presentation he most found frustrating, which led to us reintroducing the acoustic panels.

The Previn on lp, that I hear as a little grey, he was truly impressed by. And his Aqua/SGM/Duos setup is v open and transparent.

This really shows we msybe all share fewer opinions in common than you might guess.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Marc, I am really amazed by the potential of the PAP horn... just played them in for the first time today... they have so much going for them but will do due diligence and get to know them better before adding more. Am just going to bed at midnight and have to be up by 3.45am for a early commute to Sydney for work so that possibly tells you a lot about how much they have captivated me already. Much more to discover but completely happy with this new direction.

 

[PeterA]

Peter, this was a weird conclusion from Barry, because if anything, classical on my Zus was always found wanting in my old room, and before my tt had the optimal set up it now enjoys.

The music I thought Barry was most going to enjoy, well recorded fusion guitarist Steve Morse on cd, was the presentation he most found frustrating, which led to us reintroducing the acoustic panels.

The Previn on lp, that I hear as a little grey, he was truly impressed by. And his Aqua/SGM/Duos setup is v open and transparent.

This really shows we msybe all share fewer opinions in common than you might guess.

Marc, I find it very difficult to reach any conclusions about the sound of your system from reading about it because of the wildly varying reports about its sound. The discontinuity of the image which Barry describes in the beginning of his long post seems to me as if the speakers were just too far apart to present a cohesive center image. It seems you never noticed this. Then the two of you embarked on a complete rearranging of your acoustic treatments for a much better presentation. All the while, you were praising the sound of your latest system iteration, room, isolation, power, etc. You seemed most satisfied, and yet after one visitor commented, you were ready and willing to change the acoustic presentation dramatically. I don't know what to make of any of this.

I don't care for all of the defence or criticism of your Zu speakers. I am not familiar with the brand. It all seems beside the point to me, yet it fills pages of your system thread. To me, the interesting thing is how different your impressions are from those of many of your visitors, and how ready and willing you seem to be to move things around and alter your system based on what others say. Just a while ago you got into hearing a lot of live music. That became a kind of reference or guide for you, as I recall. You should use that reference, and let it inform you of how to proceed with your system.

Yes, opinions do not seem to be shared and perhaps we all hear differently. Ron may be on to something in his thread about hearing. It is all fascinating to me. Good luck as you move forward in your quest.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Peter, we all have our journeys.

Mike L recently went thru 6 dacs to get to the Select. I find that perplexing.

Tang and SteveW both have disengaged their subs after expert advice. How is that different from Barry getting me to reintroduce my panels?

SteveW has gone thru any number of Stillpoints, scrapped them all, now is all CS. Thats up for sceptical debate too.

FWIW, yes I did not perceive the phasiness that Barry did. That doesn't make me a bad listener. For all I know, he might be wrong on his analysis.

I'm not so different from loads of audiophiles who have developed their systems, love their achievements, just for another listener to raise doubts.

I've had as many positive reports as negative ones, it's just the former group don't post here.

But, for the record, I have always had reservations on my spkrs, that optimising in a brilliant room has addressed, but also highlighted, and I'm more aware than ever that I'll likely be moving on.

Hoping that lets you into how I feel about things.

 

[bonzo75]

Peter, we all have our journeys.

Mike L recently went thru 6 dacs to get to the Select. I find that perplexing.

Tang and SteveW both have disengaged their subs after expert advice. How is that different from Barry getting me to reintroduce my panels?

SteveW has gone thru any number of Stillpoints, scrapped them all, now is all CS. Thats up for sceptical debate too.

FWIW, yes I did not perceive the phasiness that Barry did. That doesn't make me a bad listener. For all I know, he might be wrong on his analysis.

I'm not so different from loads of audiophiles who have developed their systems, love their achievements, just for another listener to raise doubts.

I've had as many positive reports as negative ones, it's just the former group don't post here.

But, for the record, I have always had reservations on my spkrs, that optimising in a brilliant room has addressed, but also highlighted, and I'm more aware than ever that I'll likely be moving on.

Hoping that lets you into how I feel about things.

There is one sentence there I am laughing extremely hard at

 

[spiritofmusic]

Don't split your sides Ked. I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.

Do you ever think you can bring something to a thread about me and my journey other than your snide attitude?

 

[bonzo75]

Marc, I am not being snide at all. If I wanted to I could visit you and post a review to do that. Maybe when you are in a better mood you will appreciate the humor.

 

[bonzo75]

One day you might realize that I have been the one trying to help you for the last 4 years and getting your wrath for it, because to help you means to first tell you you need to change something which just doesn't work