same tt, same/similar arm and cartridge. same or similar level tape deck. same pressings. same tape dubs. same preamp and phono stage.
the differences are magnitudes more significant than the gear variances.
Visit to Marc C.'s (SpiritOfMusic's) House in England
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
same tt, same/similar arm and cartridge. same or similar level tape deck. same pressings. same tape dubs. same preamp and phono stage.
the differences are magnitudes more significant than the gear variances.
Although it is surely not the case of WBF vinyl experts and lovers
, 95% (I want to be optimist) of the times I listened to vinyl in shows or shop demos it sounded poor, including poor pressings, mistracking and clicks and pops. Most people do not want to spend a lifetime infinitely tweaking their analog jigs, they just want high quality sound reproduction to listen to their music. IMHO a digital copy is different but not forcefully inferior to an average analog copy.Sorry, I should have been more clear - I was asking about the digital gear used for the transcription.
my only point is not to generalize.
I've made more of a commitment to the highest level of digital playback than anyone here. and touted it from the mountaintops. but still, you have to be specific when you compare formats.
broad strokes just cause confusion and don't help.
almost this or that is so contextual it's not productive.
and conclusions that happen at an audio club meeting are not hardly data points. you cannot be serious.
I've made more of a commitment to the highest level of digital playback than anyone here. and touted it from the mountaintops. but still, you have to be specific when you compare formats.
broad strokes just cause confusion and don't help.
almost this or that is so contextual it's not productive.
and conclusions that happen at an audio club meeting are not hardly data points. you cannot be serious.
As you surely know, even the small differences in AC power quality, cables, vibration management, etc. all can make for large differences. Unless the rip was made on your system the comparison isn't apples to apples, you are comparing two different systems.
But this was never really the point anyways...
Yup, this reinforces my comments about digital lacking the pleasurable distortion analog provides as well as Blizzard's comments about the possibility of analog distortion being applied to a digital source so it can mimic your favorite analog source... but imo this doesn't make digital inferior in and of it's self, it's simply lacking pleasurable distortion than many enjoy, myself included at times.
Broad strokes just cause confusion and don't help, you can't generalize like this!
Broad strokes just cause confusion and don't help, you can't generalize like this!
touche'
Indeed. Or even just tone arm height setting can make a huge difference. So, yes,
Totally agree with you. To suggest that you can come to conclusions about vinyl rips like that across different systems is an enormous stretch.
Marc, it's amazing the time we can spend during a lifetime on the values we cherish most. :b
It's a big home, the chapel, and the bigger and older the more maintenance and the more investment where the heart is, and if the funds complement those affairs of the heart and soul.
Your last line; "This is a good problem to have." ... It is yours, your seven chosen words, nobody can take that away from you, no one can alleviate the task of our own destiny but us.
It's a great line, very unusual to read anywhere, with a fair dose of realism, appreciation and humility.
Marc,
Your house is beautiful. What a great environment and terrific stereo system. Looks very comfortable and I bet those Zu speakers are amazing.
Lee
Your house is beautiful. What a great environment and terrific stereo system. Looks very comfortable and I bet those Zu speakers are amazing.
Lee
Bob, I do recall my "hothouse" upgrade period, pretty much 1998-2008.
During this period I ran to three major systems, and had the time of my life listening to as much music as possible, often up to 5 albums a day on average.
Didn't have the world's most expensive mortgage, and my osteopath practice was gently expanding year to year as well.
The subsequent decade to the present day saw me only upgrade major components once, and I took more to system tuning w things like balanced power, Sablon cables, Entreq grounding.
It was also during this period I got most resolute criticism of my system, incl from our resident system seeker Ked, Purite Audio, Blue58, and assorted other straight shooters.
Despite my ego being badly bruised by such strong comments, they directly and indirectly led me to addressing system shortcomings, a big part of why things are so improved now.
And in the same time period I curtailed somewhat my obsessive music listening to spend more time w Ra.
Fascinatingly, with my move predicated on a more part time/semi retirement work/life balance, I once again have more time to listen to music, but I'm keeping a lid on things, and critically I'm not going crazy on major new components.
I'm the past I might have considered server/dac PLUS new analog. Now it's just one OR the other. And my money's on the server/dac (quite literally).
During this period I ran to three major systems, and had the time of my life listening to as much music as possible, often up to 5 albums a day on average.
Didn't have the world's most expensive mortgage, and my osteopath practice was gently expanding year to year as well.
The subsequent decade to the present day saw me only upgrade major components once, and I took more to system tuning w things like balanced power, Sablon cables, Entreq grounding.
It was also during this period I got most resolute criticism of my system, incl from our resident system seeker Ked, Purite Audio, Blue58, and assorted other straight shooters.
Despite my ego being badly bruised by such strong comments, they directly and indirectly led me to addressing system shortcomings, a big part of why things are so improved now.
And in the same time period I curtailed somewhat my obsessive music listening to spend more time w Ra.
Fascinatingly, with my move predicated on a more part time/semi retirement work/life balance, I once again have more time to listen to music, but I'm keeping a lid on things, and critically I'm not going crazy on major new components.
I'm the past I might have considered server/dac PLUS new analog. Now it's just one OR the other. And my money's on the server/dac (quite literally).
Just remembered it was the same digital disastrous machine I also got a few years ago and I am trying to sell cheap without any success.
IMHO, although surely very enjoyable, your ripped library is not on par with the quality of your current top digital gear. It is the great problem of ripping analog collections - ADCs are improving and we risk needing to rip again in a few years!Lee, thank you, THANK YOU!
All I've ever heard in the decade I've owned Zus is how compromised they are, measure poorly, no bass, too much bass, rough mids, yada yada.
What I heard in my demo in 2008 was something that I still find almost unique in transducers, and that's a fantastic palpable tone density that renders playback similar to live music in at least one critical way for this listener.
They have a really "human" quality of rendering instruments and human voice with a real texture and weight I've just not heard from many if any other box spkrs.
This full range drivers/very high efficiency/minimal crossover presentation is by no means for everyone, not being as pinpoint forensic as the usual suspects, but having been to three dozen live unamplified classical gigs in the last 2-3 months, from piano recital, to string quartet, to choral, to full orchestra, I don't hear the pinpoint forensic presentation at all at these concerts.
I hear tonal density to the max, and my Zus w NATs satisfy me fully here.
And the new room is really allowing them to breathe, allowing this density to max out with a lot of agility too, and lack of stress that my previous more challenging space was certainly prone to, and I'm aware of fully in retrospect.
Zu still floats my boat after a decade.
Any naysayers out there, come hear them here, and be prepared to leave impressed.
All I've ever heard in the decade I've owned Zus is how compromised they are, measure poorly, no bass, too much bass, rough mids, yada yada.
What I heard in my demo in 2008 was something that I still find almost unique in transducers, and that's a fantastic palpable tone density that renders playback similar to live music in at least one critical way for this listener.
They have a really "human" quality of rendering instruments and human voice with a real texture and weight I've just not heard from many if any other box spkrs.
This full range drivers/very high efficiency/minimal crossover presentation is by no means for everyone, not being as pinpoint forensic as the usual suspects, but having been to three dozen live unamplified classical gigs in the last 2-3 months, from piano recital, to string quartet, to choral, to full orchestra, I don't hear the pinpoint forensic presentation at all at these concerts.
I hear tonal density to the max, and my Zus w NATs satisfy me fully here.
And the new room is really allowing them to breathe, allowing this density to max out with a lot of agility too, and lack of stress that my previous more challenging space was certainly prone to, and I'm aware of fully in retrospect.
Zu still floats my boat after a decade.
Any naysayers out there, come hear them here, and be prepared to leave impressed.
Marc, what a wonderful bit of heritage you have in your world there. The building is so striking and what a lovely example of the spirit and style of the era. The celebration of the age of industry, the fantastic materials and bold form are just beautiful.
Would look amazing if you were to wrap a Victorian wild garden around it tho it's existing garden is still so very full of romance. What a characterful existence and a perfect fit for that Citroen goddess in the car port and of course a perfect place to build a loving retreat for you and your partner.
Ron's advice about just simply embracing the gear you have seems to me perfect from what I can tell of you and your journey from your writing. I know I was another who has also encouraged you to seek out a new direction with ribbon panels but on reflection this may well have been a misdirect. Having recently set up a system based on Harbeth speakers which is probably closer in nature to your Zu's and also having lived long term with ribbons I have started to realise the essential difference in terms of the way these very different speaker types shape your experience of music. It's been a good year of discovery after so many years of wandering in the darkness to at last get the real value of each.
I could live happily forever with just Harbeths for all their sonic limitations as there ultimate strength is in connection with the musical experience even if not at all absolutely accurate in their sonics abilities. This may be the same as you pursuing the best experience built around the Zu's that you so obviously love. Your instincts are to not let go of them, only the anxiety of the mind questions otherwise. The heart always knows the truth.
We can chase ultimate sonics but as can be witnessed everyday on this forum that is always in truth a road without end.
Perfect sonics are an extremity beyond known limit. The fact that nobody has got there suggests we may just kid ourselves that anyone ever will. All recreation is always just only synthetic and in truth can only ever be synthetic.
Connecting to music is simply more whole, more achievable as proven by experience, more accessible to all and affordable. Music simply doesn't require the illusion of the perfect sound. Perfect musicality focusses us on the music and not sound. Perception has two choices. Either the whole or the part. Music leads us to perceive the whole. Sonics are a part and can only ever be understood that way.
If you listen primarily for music the system merely has to set its aim towards feeling and the centre. A simpler possibility for all.
Ron's piece on your world was engaging as always and the life you are building is another story worth telling.
Love the space, enjoy it all, best to you and your partner.
Happy journey,
Tao
Would look amazing if you were to wrap a Victorian wild garden around it tho it's existing garden is still so very full of romance. What a characterful existence and a perfect fit for that Citroen goddess in the car port and of course a perfect place to build a loving retreat for you and your partner.
Ron's advice about just simply embracing the gear you have seems to me perfect from what I can tell of you and your journey from your writing. I know I was another who has also encouraged you to seek out a new direction with ribbon panels but on reflection this may well have been a misdirect. Having recently set up a system based on Harbeth speakers which is probably closer in nature to your Zu's and also having lived long term with ribbons I have started to realise the essential difference in terms of the way these very different speaker types shape your experience of music. It's been a good year of discovery after so many years of wandering in the darkness to at last get the real value of each.
I could live happily forever with just Harbeths for all their sonic limitations as there ultimate strength is in connection with the musical experience even if not at all absolutely accurate in their sonics abilities. This may be the same as you pursuing the best experience built around the Zu's that you so obviously love. Your instincts are to not let go of them, only the anxiety of the mind questions otherwise. The heart always knows the truth.
We can chase ultimate sonics but as can be witnessed everyday on this forum that is always in truth a road without end.
Perfect sonics are an extremity beyond known limit. The fact that nobody has got there suggests we may just kid ourselves that anyone ever will. All recreation is always just only synthetic and in truth can only ever be synthetic.
Connecting to music is simply more whole, more achievable as proven by experience, more accessible to all and affordable. Music simply doesn't require the illusion of the perfect sound. Perfect musicality focusses us on the music and not sound. Perception has two choices. Either the whole or the part. Music leads us to perceive the whole. Sonics are a part and can only ever be understood that way.
If you listen primarily for music the system merely has to set its aim towards feeling and the centre. A simpler possibility for all.
Ron's piece on your world was engaging as always and the life you are building is another story worth telling.
Love the space, enjoy it all, best to you and your partner.
Happy journey,
Tao
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Well, v close to making a critical decision.
If you'd said to me even 12 months ago that given the choice I'd spend a significant budget, say £10-20k, on my digital rather than analog, I'd ask what drug you were on.
Well, maybe I need to check with my "recreational provider", but that's exactly what I'm going to do.
I have my heart set on a dac that costs really nothing in high end terms, and is reliably reported to beat some big guns at 3-4x the price.
This is enabling me to put a bit more twds the streamer, and there are some interesting choices in the £7-10k category, reviews of Pink Faun 2.16, Antipodes DX and Computer Audio Design CAT stating that SQ impvts over transport-based RBCD are easily discernible and results are truly impressive.
And then there is the nuclear option w the SGM which I know to be stellar and has the potential to be beyond excellent in my room.
If you'd said to me even 12 months ago that given the choice I'd spend a significant budget, say £10-20k, on my digital rather than analog, I'd ask what drug you were on.
Well, maybe I need to check with my "recreational provider", but that's exactly what I'm going to do.
I have my heart set on a dac that costs really nothing in high end terms, and is reliably reported to beat some big guns at 3-4x the price.
This is enabling me to put a bit more twds the streamer, and there are some interesting choices in the £7-10k category, reviews of Pink Faun 2.16, Antipodes DX and Computer Audio Design CAT stating that SQ impvts over transport-based RBCD are easily discernible and results are truly impressive.
And then there is the nuclear option w the SGM which I know to be stellar and has the potential to be beyond excellent in my room.
Tao, thanks so much for the kind words and wisdom.
The garden is Ra's province, and it's great for me to have such a fantastic outside space that wasn't possible in my Inner London apartment.
The main garden stretches from front to one side adjacent to the Creek, we have a walled courtyard garden street-side, and a secluded track at the back where Ra is going to put the...chickens!
Yep, you read that right.
Love, it's gotta be a mental condition!
Additionally we've got a big balcony that overlooks the main garden and Creek.
You have no idea how often these buildings are over converted, subdivided, smoothed over, so to find one that despite it needing lots of (expensive) tender loving care, was unmolested in terms of layout and original features, is really unlikely.
To see it for 5 seconds was to fall in love with it, and then to have the ultimate bonus as an audiophile of the potential of an uber dedicated listening space as blank canvas to begin, meant I put in an offer almost there and then.
---
Re potential move to Apogees, well my original idea was maybe to run the second bedroom at 18x12x9 as the audio room, and that would have lent itself well to Duettas, esp after the exemplary set up I heard at Justin/User211 in a v similarly sized room.
The budget I finally put into the audio room would have covered acoustic treatments in this smaller room, a nice SGM server/dac and uber tt upgrade.
But I decided early on the draw of having the much bigger space was too irresistible, and so that's how it happened.
Big expense, no shortage of stress and worry, and certainly no thought (or budget for) for Apogees, SGM, uber tt etc up here.
And as Ron has confirmed, I kinda 200% made the right call.
An interesting "what if?" however.
---
Re the love for Zus.
Well, plenty of things were badly wrong w my old room, Ked can list them, he highlighted them all.
But one thing was beyond good, and that's vindicated in the new space to an even deeper level, and that's my decision to concentrate on tone dense mids and palpable upper bass via NAT SETs and Zus.
Ked often suggests putting a system away, listening to a ton of live unamplified, recalibrating, and then making clearer conclusions.
Well I have done just this, and I'm even more a fan of my choices than ever.
The room has just rekindled this even more.
---
Re yr philisophical musings, you've summed up things really nicely, listening to music actually means a lot more in such a great environment, because it's now part of my lifestyle rather than the whole of it.
The garden is Ra's province, and it's great for me to have such a fantastic outside space that wasn't possible in my Inner London apartment.
The main garden stretches from front to one side adjacent to the Creek, we have a walled courtyard garden street-side, and a secluded track at the back where Ra is going to put the...chickens!
Yep, you read that right.
Love, it's gotta be a mental condition!
Additionally we've got a big balcony that overlooks the main garden and Creek.
You have no idea how often these buildings are over converted, subdivided, smoothed over, so to find one that despite it needing lots of (expensive) tender loving care, was unmolested in terms of layout and original features, is really unlikely.
To see it for 5 seconds was to fall in love with it, and then to have the ultimate bonus as an audiophile of the potential of an uber dedicated listening space as blank canvas to begin, meant I put in an offer almost there and then.
---
Re potential move to Apogees, well my original idea was maybe to run the second bedroom at 18x12x9 as the audio room, and that would have lent itself well to Duettas, esp after the exemplary set up I heard at Justin/User211 in a v similarly sized room.
The budget I finally put into the audio room would have covered acoustic treatments in this smaller room, a nice SGM server/dac and uber tt upgrade.
But I decided early on the draw of having the much bigger space was too irresistible, and so that's how it happened.
Big expense, no shortage of stress and worry, and certainly no thought (or budget for) for Apogees, SGM, uber tt etc up here.
And as Ron has confirmed, I kinda 200% made the right call.
An interesting "what if?" however.
---
Re the love for Zus.
Well, plenty of things were badly wrong w my old room, Ked can list them, he highlighted them all.
But one thing was beyond good, and that's vindicated in the new space to an even deeper level, and that's my decision to concentrate on tone dense mids and palpable upper bass via NAT SETs and Zus.
Ked often suggests putting a system away, listening to a ton of live unamplified, recalibrating, and then making clearer conclusions.
Well I have done just this, and I'm even more a fan of my choices than ever.
The room has just rekindled this even more.
---
Re yr philisophical musings, you've summed up things really nicely, listening to music actually means a lot more in such a great environment, because it's now part of my lifestyle rather than the whole of it.
Marc , 7-10k on a server is a waste of money. I use a $299 squeezebox as my front end to my system and a Dell precision to run my server
The dell is overkill, any modern 500 - 1000 quid i7 laptop will do
The dell is overkill, any modern 500 - 1000 quid i7 laptop will do
