Wbf best system under $30k

[FrantzM]

Gregadd

responding to this interesting post by Bonzo and will get back On Topic .. Sorry :b

I can understand the attraction of the "Sound" and frankly we audiophiles are in it somewhat for the sound. It is pleasing whether we agree or not ... But for me Music has taken precedence.
Where we diverge is that I am no longer convinced that analog is superior conically. When confronted to digital whose provenance is a needle drop on even a modest ADC, most audiophiles fail consistently to determine its origin. I am willing to bet so would you. That implies to me that digital is transparent enough to conserve all the analog "goodness" whatever they are and that some people like. I don;t care enough anymore. I have close to 3,000 LP but have found that I rarely (once the past 2 months) if ever listening to them so enthralled I am by new music and my CD collection. With Roon, I am even discovering music that I have had in my collection that I seldom or worse never listened too. Example is what I am listening as I am typing this: I woke up early this morning and started as session with Stanley Turrentine interesting Salt Song then "Sugar" ... then Roon Radio suggested CannonBall Adderly thru Bill Evans' "Waltz for Debby" an album I haven't heard for a while and a Classic ... from there to Charles Mingus (this one I listen to a lot ) "Tijuana Moods" then right now to Herbie Hancock " The Joni Letters" An Album I bought a while ago but have listened to, maybe once or twice ... A marvelous album! So noway I would care to clean a record, put it on the platter and sit down to enjoy it ... I prefer to take my iPad and fire Roon.. especially when the sound of digital is as good as anything out there ... Different? Sure! Inferior to analog ? No way if a digital copy is indistinguishable from the original analog source

Now to get back to Gregadd system

Vandersteen 5 (used) ANother brand which audiophiles have shunned lately, yet a wonderful speaker by all means.. It has powered sub

so Vandersteen 5 (used) $7,000 ( On Audiogon or Hifishark often for less)
The always present subs
SVS SB 2000 x 2 $1400 (The Vandy 5 has powered subs so )
Mini DSP thingie with Dirac $750
Burmester Integrated (used) $8~10,000
Berkeley DAC 2 (used) $4.5~5,000
Blizzard Streamer $250

use the rest for phono stage, TT/Arm/Cart, Room treatment, Used Double conversion UPS for Power conditioning, cables (please put cable last on the menu )

Frantz - that's why I got into streaming in the first place, and never went down the analog route. It let's you discover music. I have no desire to touch physical media.

However, the pull towards vinyl is because of "sound", not because of the desire to touch - and the resistance is because of the inconvenience and physicality.

Which goes back to my point on how big an audiophile one is. If one just wants to play music, a major hifi system is not required and streaming can be done...but then the geekier one gets in terms of audiophilia, the person will want to play around with what he has, including with computer audio as well...Computer Audiophile forum is full of people who have made digital more complex than vinyl. There is a reason some prefer to build their streamer, while others prefer to just buy an Auralic aries or such. Hence my previous distinction between music lovers and audiophiles. There is a distinction between just enjoying music (Spotify type streaming), wanting good sound (analog), and tweaking whatever set up you have for the sake of tweaking. And then there is a whole range on that spectrum. There is no right or wrong on that spectrum. However, what I do see on the forum unfortunately is people who are not content with where on the spectrum they lie, and claim to be on one point of the spectrum while they are actually on another, leading to dissonance.

Btw, the Linn Akubarik exakt is an excellent system, all put together, with only one power cable and 2 ethernet cables, to stream with good quality sound that fits into this forum's budget.

 

[Gregadd]

If the author of the op is permitted to momentarily digress ,he would be obliged.

His 7
It does pain me that so many are drawn in by the sirens song of the needle drop and have crashed on the rocks of alleged digital superiority. Once again the pseudo science of blind testing,as practiced in audio land, rears it's ugly head. The failure to achieve a certain score is continually offered as proof of the negative leading to unfounded cpnclusions.
A straight up comparison between digital and analog proves vinyl is better.
What is so inconvenient about getting off your butt and changing a record? Portability is of course a different matter.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

If the author of the op is permitted to momentarily digress ,he would be obliged.

His 7
It does pain me that so many are drawn in by the sirens song of the needle drop and have crashed on the rocks of alleged digital superiority. Once again the pseudo science of blind testing,as practiced in audio land, rears it's ugly head. The failure to achieve a certain score is continually offered as proof of the negative leading to unfounded cpnclusions.
A straight up comparison between digital and analog proves vinyl is better.
What is so inconvenient about getting off your butt and changing a record? Portability is of course a different matter.

This is, of course, an opinion and the word "proof" has no place in this sentence. If one disagrees with this opinion, why would he be spinning vinyl? For the exercise? Something to do with too much disposable income?

Tim

 

[bonzo75]

Don't want to make this another digital analog discussion, but you get my point though you might differ on what sounds better

 

[Gregadd]

Tim you continue to try to rebut my arguments agents with vatiations of the phrase, just his opinion. Thankfully to no avail.

 

[FrantzM]

Getting back to the original discussion...

Another digital only system based the very interesting thread by Dallasjustice about the JBL 4367...

The JBL 4367 $15,000
Devialet 200 Integrated $7000
SVS SB2000 x4 $2800
Mini DSP $750

Cables etc with the remaining ...

Or you could go with only 2 of the subs and string the money to a TT/Arm/Crtdg combo used for 5~6K ....

I am in the midst of going back to Speaker-based system and this exercise in the $30K system has me contemplating to spend much less than I originally anticipated ... I'd would have liked to see more systems ...but ...

 

[Purite Audio]

Getting back to the original discussion...

Another digital only system based the very interesting thread by Dallasjustice about the JBL 4367...

The JBL 4367 $15,000
Devialet 200 Integrated $7000
SVS SB2000 x4 $2800
Mini DSP $750

Cables etc with the remaining ...

Or you could go with only 2 of the subs and string the money to a TT/Arm/Crtdg combo used for 5~6K ....

I am in the midst of going back to Speaker-based system and this exercise in the $30K system has me contemplating to spend much less than I originally anticipated ... I'd would have liked to see more systems ...but ...

Loudspeakers are certainly an area where personal preference holds sway, I hope to have the JBLs here soon to compare to my Cessaro two way horns and the Grimm LS1's , the Grimms active monitors do have a different presentation to the horns, I enjoy them both , both good just different.
Keith.

 

[Gregadd]

The Harmon technology notwithstanding I would suggest the Avantgarde Duo 2.2@ approximately $15k. This would allow you to take advantage of some excellent reasonably price 300B applications.
In a large room they are capable of spreading an orchestra .

 

[Purite Audio]

The Harmon technology notwithstanding I would suggest the Avantgarde Duo 2.2@ approximately $15k. This would allow you to take advantage of some excellent reasonably price 300B applications.
In a large room they are capable of spreading an orchestra .

I am familiar with AG speakers, cheap drivers,cheap horns, hat stand enclosure, I discounted those very early in my horn journey.
Keith.

 

[Gregadd]

I am familiar with AG speakers, cheap drivers,cheap horns, hat stand enclosure, I discounted those very early in my horn journey.
Keith.

I guess I took a different path. I never heard any thing negative. Care to elaborate?
Did you or an acquaintance suffer a negative experience?

 

[bonzo75]

The Harmon technology notwithstanding I would suggest the Avantgarde Duo 2.2@ approximately $15k. This would allow you to take advantage of some excellent reasonably price 300B applications.
In a large room they are capable of spreading an orchestra .

The trios with the bass horns are by far the best I have heard in reproducing large scale orchestra, with a large choice of amplification, but I just don't like the duos or any of the smaller ones.

That said, all in one active systems like the AG zero are great of one is on a budget

 

[DaveC]

The Harmon technology notwithstanding I would suggest the Avantgarde Duo 2.2@ approximately $15k. This would allow you to take advantage of some excellent reasonably price 300B applications.
In a large room they are capable of spreading an orchestra .

Maybe, but the JBL's woofer outclasses the AG woofer section by far. You need to step up to the new Duo Mezzo XD to get decent bass from AG and then you're looking at $45k.

 

[DaveC]

The trios with the bass horns are by far the best I have heard in reproducing large scale orchestra, with a large choice of amplification, but I just don't like the duos or any of the smaller ones.

That said, all in one active systems like the AG zero are great of one is on a budget

I hated the zeros, and really anything below the Due Mezzo is not worth it imo.

 

[bonzo75]

I hated the zeros, and really anything below the Due Mezzo is not worth it imo.

I don't like Zeros but if someone wants a budget with no boxes it is as fine as any. I don't like Duo Mezzo either

 

[Gregadd]

I never heard the trios. The unos and duos are fine. As per usual associated equipmemt amd/ or environment may be the key . I have never heard a bad horn.

 

[Purite Audio]

I guess I took a different path. I never heard any thing negative. Care to elaborate?
Did you or an acquaintance suffer a negative experience?

AG use dynamic drivers instead of compression drivers ,they use thin 3-5 mm plastic horns, they use subwoofers crossed too high into the midrange, even their bass horns aren't big enough for proper front loaded bass.
In their favour they are relatively inexpensive , If cost is a consideration consider Odeon or even Blomenhoffer.
Keith.

 

[Gregadd]

Ok. So it's the design you don't like. Yet they manage to sound great

 

[rbbert]

Although I've heard them only at shows, and only with LP's, I have never heard a Cessaro horn system sound in any way "good". JMO of course.

 

[FrantzM]

Ok. So it's the design you don't like. Yet they manage to sound great

"great" is in the ear of the beholder ...
I have heard the Duo sound good, never great. I have heard better horns, the Acapella comes to mind but they're very expensive .. I have great things about the Gedleee horns. I would still like to audition these. The largest model is $12K the pair.. Geddes and the JBL have many design points in common among these Constant Directivity.
Back to your $30K System

 

[Purite Audio]

Although I've heard them only at shows, and only with LP's, I have never heard a Cessaro horn system sound in any way "good". JMO of course.

Jeff had the two way Chopin and the four way Liszt at his place, difficult to assess a loudspeaker at a show, and Cessaro have been paired with amps which IMHO didn't help their cause.
Keith.