What are you currently listening to (Classical)?

[LL21]

It may not be as sublime as his more mature symphonies, but hey, it's still Bruckner! Needless to say, it's played to the hilt, and the sound is good if lacking some depth.

Have you listened to any of the Gunter Ward/Berlin Philharmonic Bruckner Symphonies? Curious to know what you think...i got a few which were mastered by Esoteric which i have generally enjoyed.

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

Jonathan, are you going to take a chance on any of these?

Hi Ian,

Not 100% sure on these. I think her strongest suit was as a recitalist and all of these are obviously concerto repertoire. I wouldn't mind finding out more about what exact performances these are and what sources were used. All three will probably be out when I next order around October. I already have three other Brahms concertos on LP reissues (Szeryng on Mercury, Heifetz on Living Stereo and Morini on Westminster) so I'm not exactly hankering for another one of those. I may get the Mozart 3 and 4 to see what it is all about.

I am just a bit hesitant when labels without an audiophile pedigree start bringing out vinyl. I took a punt on the Schwarzkopf Four Last Songs on Warner a few month back. You will notice I have not recommended it here! I waited and waited for someone else to buy it but went for it after many months of waiting. I was really disappointed. It was worse than the CD I used to have. As I wrote in my review at Acoustic Sounds, blow me down if it wasn't taken straight from the circa 1980s CD or at least the CD master file. It sounded awful - it had everything wrong with it that EMI CD releases (and CD in general) had going back to the 80s and 90s. Sounds like it went from an original analogue tape through to a mid 1980s DAT machine (without any decent converter) and from there to CD and from CD to vinyl!!

So I am just not sure if this company is just getting on the bandwagon like Warner have or whether they are "serious" or not. Had it been a recital - say, for instance one of the Brahms Sonatas, I would jump on it just for the sake of the performance. Then again, maybe these are actually on EMI tapes (I say that because Haendel on the second of these new discs recorded some excellent stuff for EMI - you ought to hear her Sibelius Concerto). And if they are EMI tapes, maybe they will have better treatment than EMI themselves traditionally like to do with their excessive signal processing.

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

I'm not sure no editing was such a good idea, as she hits quite a few wrong notes, especially in the Spanish Rhapsody. Very good sound.

Good on her! But I agree with you. We would probably have a much lower opinion of an artist if all we ever heard where their perfect recordings then we suddenly go to a live performance or hear the out-takes from a recording session! I think I have only ever gone to one live performance in my life where the entire performance was "perfect". That was Shlomo Mintz with the Israel Phiharmonic under Zubin Mehta at the Sydney Opera house way back around 1983 or 1984. Actually cancel that. 3/4 the way through it, a cellist accidentally dropped their bow!! Everything else I have ever heard has been sufficiently "flawed" that it eventually becomes painful were you to hear the same mistake made repeatedly over and over again.

These days with digital editing it is so easy for a pro-editor to stitch together dozens of takes and it is completely impossible to distinguish one take from another. On the other hand, I bought a boxed set of Berlin Philharmonic Live performances (Schumann Symphony cycle) and you can actually hear some of the edit points if you are a keen enough listener on a great system. A typical example might be a reverb trail during a pause is cut off 90% the way through, though you'd have to be listening very carefully and at a realistic volume to hear it. I am hesitant to name names but I suspect there are many artists out there today who avail themselves of seriously heavy duty editing. Would not surprise me if there were hundreds of them on any given disc.

On the other side of the coin, rumour had it that James Ehnes recorded the entire 24 Caprices of Paganini in single takes for Telarc!! I cannot begin to convey to anyone who is not a violinist of what sort of astonishing feat that is.

 

[Bachtoven]

Have you listened to any of the Gunter Ward/Berlin Philharmonic Bruckner Symphonies? Curious to know what you think...i got a few which were mastered by Esoteric which i have generally enjoyed.

No, I'm quite content with HvK's series!

 

[LL21]

No, I'm quite content with HvK's series!

fair enough! i am thinking of getting Vanska or Storgards Sibelius Symphonies. i have the Berglund which i think is fantastic. Any thoughts?

 

[Bachtoven]

Good on her! But I agree with you. We would probably have a much lower opinion of an artist if all we ever heard where their perfect recordings then we suddenly go to a live performance or hear the out-takes from a recording session! I think I have only ever gone to one live performance in my life where the entire performance was "perfect". That was Shlomo Mintz with the Israel Phiharmonic under Zubin Mehta at the Sydney Opera house way back around 1983 or 1984. Actually cancel that. 3/4 the way through it, a cellist accidentally dropped their bow!! Everything else I have ever heard has been sufficiently "flawed" that it eventually becomes painful were you to hear the same mistake made repeatedly over and over again.

These days with digital editing it is so easy for a pro-editor to stitch together dozens of takes and it is completely impossible to distinguish one take from another. On the other hand, I bought a boxed set of Berlin Philharmonic Live performances (Schumann Symphony cycle) and you can actually hear some of the edit points if you are a keen enough listener on a great system. A typical example might be a reverb trail during a pause is cut off 90% the way through, though you'd have to be listening very carefully and at a realistic volume to hear it. I am hesitant to name names but I suspect there are many artists out there today who avail themselves of seriously heavy duty editing. Would not surprise me if there were hundreds of them on any given disc.

On the other side of the coin, rumour had it that James Ehnes recorded the entire 24 Caprices of Paganini in single takes for Telarc!! I cannot begin to convey to anyone who is not a violinist of what sort of astonishing feat that is.

A few clinkers in the concert hall are usually not deal-breakers, but committed to CDs or LPs, they become more distracting and call attention to themselves too much.

I used to be a recording engineer from around 1976 to 1990--spent hundreds of hours with a razor blade splicing analog recordings! There was no "undo" for those procedures like digital editing has!

 

[Bachtoven]

fair enough! i am thinking of getting Vanska or Storgards Sibelius Symphonies. i have the Berglund which i think is fantastic. Any thoughts?

I have Sergerstam's set on Ondine and HvK's EMI set. I haven't heard the three you mentioned, but I've read great reviews of the Storgard. I ordered his new recordings of Norgard's Symphonies and am eagerly awaiting them. (Somehow, my street name got omitted on the Presto Classical website, so they probably got returned, which will cause a few weeks' delay!)

 

[Bachtoven]

This set arrived today, and I began with the String Quartet. What a wonderful work! I guess its formidable performing difficulties prevent it from being played often. Wonderful, life-like sound.

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

A few clinkers in the concert hall are usually not deal-breakers, but committed to CDs or LPs, they become more distracting and call attention to themselves too much.

I used to be a recording engineer from around 1976 to 1990--spent hundreds of hours with a razor blade splicing analog recordings! There was no "undo" for those procedures like digital editing has!

The razorblade guys and gals had my utmost respect because as you say - non-reversible but also there was not by its very nature the sample-level of precision like there is with digital and no way to "smooth" or interpolate over an edit point like there is with digital if the edit cannot be made absolutely perfect to begin with. Furthermore, typically the playback systems used when editing back them simply could not afford the extremely high resolution and detail of todays state of the art digital or analogue. These days when I load up those old analogue recordings (having been transferred into the digital domain) I am always astonished at the precision of the edits. Yes, you can hear them but I have never heard an analogue edit on a highly respected classical label actually intrude into the musical content or flow of it. Which is more than I can say for digital. Another reason that in the end I prefer analogue if there is a choice.

By the time I got seriously interested in any recording or editing the DAT machines had just come onto the professional market though our community radio station at the time was also still using Betamax video recorders and Sony PCM modules.

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

I am really enjoying this vinyl LP recording today. Stunning sound and pretty decent performances though I think the first movement of the Haffner is a little more urgent than I would like which at times harms the clarity and integrity of the first violin part. Picked it up only a couple of months ago though it has been out for years:

 

[LL21]

I have Sergerstam's set on Ondine and HvK's EMI set. I haven't heard the three you mentioned, but I've read great reviews of the Storgard. I ordered his new recordings of Norgard's Symphonies and am eagerly awaiting them. (Somehow, my street name got omitted on the Presto Classical website, so they probably got returned, which will cause a few weeks' delay!)

Thanks! Will continue to consider getting it.

 

[MadFloyd]

I am really enjoying this vinyl LP recording today. Stunning sound and pretty decent performances though I think the first movement of the Haffner is a little more urgent than I would like which at times harms the clarity and integrity of the first violin part. Picked it up only a couple of months ago though it has been out for years:

View attachment 27964

Thanks, I'm going to order this.

Jonathan, I forget whether I've asked you this or whether you've mentioned it, but have you tried any of the HI-Q LPs?

 

[Bachtoven]

The razorblade guys and gals had my utmost respect because as you say - non-reversible but also there was not by its very nature the sample-level of precision like there is with digital and no way to "smooth" or interpolate over an edit point like there is with digital if the edit cannot be made absolutely perfect to begin with. Furthermore, typically the playback systems used when editing back them simply could not afford the extremely high resolution and detail of todays state of the art digital or analogue. These days when I load up those old analogue recordings (having been transferred into the digital domain) I am always astonished at the precision of the edits. Yes, you can hear them but I have never heard an analogue edit on a highly respected classical label actually intrude into the musical content or flow of it. Which is more than I can say for digital. Another reason that in the end I prefer analogue if there is a choice.

By the time I got seriously interested in any recording or editing the DAT machines had just come onto the professional market though our community radio station at the time was also still using Betamax video recorders and Sony PCM modules.

One usually has to find a spot in the music where there is a strong attack for an analog edit to be inaudible. It also helps to have skilled musicians who can accurately recreate the tempos and dynamics so the music doesn't suddenly slow down or lunge ahead at the edit points! I usually used headphones so I could hear every little detail while editing.

 

[Bachtoven]

The Violin Sonata and Piano Trio today--both are superb.

 

[NorthStar]

This guy is quite comfy with a piano, plays with a tight band (bass & drums), the recording quality is reasonable (Telarc CD), and the music is quite happy/jazzy.
So then why am I posting it in the classical music section? Because Bach is a classical composer and Loussier a jazz interpreter.
And also because this is a great thread. :b Lol, any music that is happy is classic.
Bach was a great composer.

 

[Bachtoven]

This guy is quite comfy with a piano, plays with a tight band (bass & drums), the recording quality is reasonable (Telarc CD), and the music is quite happy/jazzy.
So then why am I posting it in the classical music section? Because Bach is a classical composer and Loussier a jazz interpreter.
And also because this is a great thread. :b Lol, any music that is happy is classic.
Bach was a great composer.

I have the SACD version--sounds pretty good.

 

[NorthStar]

I just had a momentary lapse of memory. But now it's coming bach.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Lol, any music that is happy is classic.

but not necessarily classical. (This one is, though.)

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

Thanks, I'm going to order this.

Jonathan, I forget whether I've asked you this or whether you've mentioned it, but have you tried any of the HI-Q LPs?

Yes. Quite a few. Although I think they are very faithful to the original master tapes and they demonstrate that EMI could actually be an extremely capable label in engineering terms compared to the other big names, these particular LPs - at least in my experience - suffer chronically from inconsistent production standards. I have a couple of them that are very good but I'd say a good 70% of the ones that have come into my hands suffer badly from non-fill and other undesirables such as hundreds of significant ticks and pops per side.

I've written twice to the company pleading with them to have them produced in the US by Quality Record Pressings but clearly they are not interested and have a lot of pride in the whole "Made in England" thing.

I reluctantly stopped buying them because I feared the ramifications to my excellent account standing with Acoustic Sounds (only a small handful of faulty LP returns over 6 years with over $6,000 spent on LPs) and / or my wallet. A pity, since I reckon these are the best EMI sound you are ever going to ever hear this side of an Esoteric SACD Reissue. At least, however, they are bringing them out on CD and those CDs are likely to be a lot better than the heavily-processed "official" EMI ones released over the years.

 

[NorthStar]

but not necessarily classical. (This one is, though.)

:b That's the reason why I said "classic" instead of 'classical'. Yes indeed, that one is a happy "classic" recording. ...Bach played jazzy style.
And some classical music (other genre too) can be very depressing and tumultuously gut wrenching...powerful.