What are you doing about EMI/RFI?

[Cellcbern]

1) Dedicated line and power conditioner (Bybee Stealth)
2) Quantum Physics Noise Disruptors - on power conditioner, under amp and Modwright power supply for sacd player
3) Shakti Stones (Air version) on sacd player and behind crossover on speakers
4) Lessloss Firewall 640X Entropic between power conditioner and PC to wall
5) Lessloss CMARC Entropic PC and Firewall 640X on sacd player
6) Bybee Quantum Clarifiers on speaker driver (woofer and wide band) magnets
7) Akiko Triple AC Enhancer, and Tuning Sticks (on speaker cables), Nordost QV2's and QK1's, Furutech Clear Lines
8) Chassis (power conditioner and Modwright power supply) and signal (amp and player) "grounding" via Puritan Groundmaster City devices.
9) Bybee Music Rails added to amp and player
10) ERS paper and Bybee IQSE's in dedicated breaker box

Each of these made an incremental improvement until I reached the point where I hear no audible noise, etch, glare, electronic signature, etc. -- just music.

 

[Cellcbern]

We are using a few things that have worked well:
- Within Zanden's original design, practically everything has this shielding across individual pieces. Something that Yamada San has already done for you in his digital
- Additionally, we use Waversa INT LAN Reference Plus which basically takes each of the 8 strands of an i2s digital cable and runs each strand through some kind of magnetic or field or something inside...and then puts all 8 strands back together on the other side to connect into the DAC. Supposedly about RMI/RFI...works EXTREMELY WELL. More resolved, in fact FAR more resolved...word clarity is our biggest clue in that, but the images shimmer even less than before and are still and resolved in their own space better
- Plus, we use Entreq Wraps, Entreq Paper around cable inputs/outputs which do seem generally to quiet down a sense of grunge, the signal appears a bit denser, more resolved
- I have no idea what the Tripoint/Entreq Grounding boxes do...but they WORK, and if they also reduce emi/rfi, so be it. More of the above.

In fact, all of the above has been about finding a voice we like...source, amps, speakers...and then HONING with this by removing noise as much as possible. Signal basically feels much purer and the original voice is simply a better version of itself - unchanged in terms of organic character.

Far as I know draining EMI and RFI riding on the ground is the only thing that Tripoint and other "grounding" boxes do. Tripoint says this up front - from their home page under "Welcome to Tripoint" - "Come experience the holographic transportation of the real musical event with our proprietary passive filtration components that eliminate EMI/RFI....".

 

[LL21]

Far as I know draining EMI and RFI riding on the ground is the only thing that Tripoint and other "grounding" boxes do. Tripoint says this up front - from their home page under "Welcome to Tripoint" - "Come experience the holographic transportation of the real musical event with our proprietary passive filtration components that eliminate EMI/RFI....".

Thanks!

 

[agisthos]

You really have to watch it with RFI/EMI tweaks. Ferrite beads, magnets, shielding tape, resonant field devices, crystal/mineral absorbers etc all these thing can change the sound and initially seem to improve it.

But later on you need to take them off and check again. Because in my experience sometimes they improve things in one area but can take something away in another, and it’s not apparent the first time the tweak is applied, you only hear the cleanness and initial benefits.

The negatives often are a lack of air and naturalness, a choking or constriction of the sound.

Having said all that, I have yet to try the 3M absorber sheets placed on critical parts of digital circuit boards, that one looks interesting, like a tweaky rabbit hole.

 

[LL21]

You really have to watch it with RFI/EMI tweaks. Ferrite beads, magnets, shielding tape, resonant field devices, crystal/mineral absorbers etc all these thing can change the sound and initially seem to improve it.

But later on you need to take them off and check again. Because in my experience they improve things in one area but often take something away in another, and it’s not apparent the first time the tweak is applied, you only hear the cleanness and initial benefits.

The negatives often are a lack of air and naturalness, a choking or construction on the sound.

Having said all that, I have yet to try the 3M absorber sheets placed on critical parts of digital circuit boards, that looks like a tweaky rabbit hole.

I agree with this...I suppose that is why our grounding and some of the other emi/rfi stuff has generally been 'stabilized' in setup over a period of months, not days or weeks. And in fact the grounding today came in over a period of 3 big updates over several years.

Some of the EMI/RFI shielding when 'overdone' can choke. But generally been positive up to that point.

 

[Cellcbern]

I agree with this...I suppose that is why our grounding and some of the other emi/rfi stuff has generally been 'stabilized' in setup over a period of months, not days or weeks. And in fact the grounding today came in over a period of 3 big updates over several years.

Some of the EMI/RFI shielding when 'overdone' can choke. But generally been positive up to that point.

I take the opportunity annually when I do contact cleaning to remove many of my tweaks (see post #21 above dated 12/31/22), play the system without them, and then put them back one at a time to verify that they are still worth having. After several cycles of doing this I haven't found anything that was not making a positive contribution.

 

[LL21]

I take the opportunity annually when I do contact cleaning to remove many of my tweaks (see post #21 above dated 12/31/22), play the system without them, and then put them back one at a time to verify that they are still worth having. After several cycles of doing this I haven't found anything that was not making a positive contribution.

Wow...that's commitment. I obsessively focus on it very intensely...as soon as it hits 'critical success'...I leave it.

 

[Cycling Nut]

I ordered several sheets of 3M™ AB7000HF Series EMI Absorber specs: https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data Sheets/3M PDFs/AB7000HF.pdf
Maybe the AB5000HF series would be better?
I simply taped a couple of AB7010HF sheets to the circuit breaker panel, without interfering with its function, and the noise floor in my system dropped a noticeable amount.
I taped a half sheet just above the wall outlet for my system for a smaller but noticeable lowering of noise.
Using the sheet in a different very novel way I lowered noise a lot, I may make it a product. Or not. Too early to tell, but expermentation is the key.


I also built 2 DC power supply cords similar to what SlapEcho did, but not as neat, for more noise reduction.
Using the YC industrial cloth tape SlapEcho used, I put 7 strips on my cable set top box to see if anything would happen. Picture improved and sound got better! All for $8. Wrapped some around half of my speaker cable for clearer sound. It dulled my interconnects. So I have to experiment to see what works.

 

[rpk]

Hello C N
Feature (advantage) of the 5000 / 5100 series could be that a 1mm version is available.
Experiment creates knowledge

Further successful results wishes Rainer

I ordered several sheets of 3M™ AB7000HF Series EMI Absorber specs: https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data Sheets/3M PDFs/AB7000HF.pdf
Maybe the AB5000HF series would be better?
I simply taped a couple of AB7010HF sheets to the circuit breaker panel, without interfering with its function, and the noise floor in my system dropped a noticeable amount.
I taped a half sheet just above the wall outlet for my system for a smaller but noticeable lowering of noise.
Using the sheet in a different very novel way I lowered noise a lot, I may make it a product. Or not. Too early to tell, but expermentation is the key.
View attachment 103788

I also built 2 DC power supply cords similar to what SlapEcho did, but not as neat, for more noise reduction.
Using the YC industrial cloth tape SlapEcho used, I put 7 strips on my cable set top box to see if anything would happen. Picture improved and sound got better! All for $8. Wrapped some around half of my speaker cable for clearer sound. It dulled my interconnects. So I have to experiment to see what works.

 

[agisthos]

Apparently that 3M sheet (5000 series) works best when cut to size and laid directly on the internal pcb boards of components, not as a chassis wall covering shield.

It’s an absorber, not a shield.

 

[SlapEcho]

As a rule of thumb, I find that rf absorption next/near line level analog signals is detrimental(rounding of dynamics and highs). In the case of the USB cable(digital), I added the polyethylene foam to distance the absorption material from the signal wires and shield and applied the 3M material as long as I could as to minimize possible changes in impedance along the length of the cable. Again the idea is to create an rf anechoic chamber for the transmission line as much as possible.

 

[TRHH]

My current setup against EMI/RFI




Torben

 

[Robh3606]

Nothing don't have a problem.

Rob

 

[Serenade]

I live in an apartment block within 3km within sight of three huge powerful transmitters of radio, TV and radar. My listening room is just next to the lift shaft, air-conditioning is prevalent and fluorescent lighting is de-facto in all common areas of the block. Being on the the 14th floor, seems to be worse off than at ground floor. My environment is very bad when it comes to RFI.

When I spin the CDP, the problem is tolerable. When I use vinyl, this is where the RFI gets unlistenable with hum, crackles and odd voice even at low volumes. I have done the following and the hum is now barely discernable even when putting my ear at the speakers at 80dB+ playback level. I am using turntable with low output MC cartridge and solid state a phono amp.

1. Use a Schumann Frequency generator RR77 from Acoustic Revive, with oversize power supply. It is important that the generator is placed close to the equipment.
2. Wrap aluminium foil around all i/c to and from the phono stage.
3. Add additional grounding by running a short wire from the plug chassis wrapped in silver tape to the earth pin of the plug. In other words, I ground the plug chassis.
4. Cross signal and power cable at right angles with aluminium foil wrapping at where the cable cross. I am very space constrained so I cannot run the power and signal cable along separate paths. When able to do so, I put a wooden peg between the crossing cables to increase the distance.
5. Tried different powercords. Some are better shielded and better at suppressing RF noise than others. I settled on Ansuz Ceramic full loom after trials. These have Tesla coils embedded in addition to shielding.

All the above was by trial and error to remove the very pesky RF. Just sharing what worked for me.

 

[TRHH]

4. Cross signal and power cable at right angles with aluminium foil wrapping at where the cable cross.

Hi @Serenade - Would be nice if you could provide a pic how it looks like

THX

Torben

 

[HK Panda]

31mix beads on all lines except the 2 dedicated 20A lines for the system. Don't shoot it until you try it!

What are those ? You made yourself or they can be purchased?

 

[TRHH]

Final version:




Torben

 

[SlapEcho]

What are those ? You made yourself or they can be purchased?

You can purchase on Amazon. Just search for "mix 31 ferrite" and verify that the one you choose is mix 31. This ferrite blend suppresses a wider range of frequencies than typical ferrite mixes. The one I posted has 1/2" diameter but the come in a variety of sizes.

Amazon.com

 

[rpk]

You can purchase on Amazon. Just search for "mix 31 ferrite" and verify that the one you choose is mix 31. This ferrite blend suppresses a wider range of frequencies than typical ferrite mixes. The one I posted has 1/2" diameter but the come in a variety of sizes.

Amazon.com

Hello,
When using folding ferrites, please make sure that they are taut / tight around the cable, the perfectly fitting diameter is therefore important.
Loose ferrites on the other hand are ineffective to ineffective.

Regards Rainer

 

[HK Panda]

I

You can purchase on Amazon. Just search for "mix 31 ferrite" and verify that the one you choose is mix 31. This ferrite blend suppresses a wider range of frequencies than typical ferrite mixes. The one I posted has 1/2" diameter but the come in a variety of sizes.

Amazon.com

I found some from TDK with the 1-500MHZ specification with a 13mm ID. So I'll give them a try. They are on order.