What's going on with the US stock market lately?

[Ron Resnick]

I think the thread is open. (I tried to reopen it.)

 

[NorthStar]

It is, but the stock market is closed for the weekend...here in the USA.

 

[Ron Resnick]

 

[DaveyF]

Thank you for your gracious opening, but I am afraid I have to disagree with the above.

One of the primary roles of the United States Supreme Court is to protect individuals, whose liberties are guaranteed to them by the Bill of Rights in the Constitution of the United States, against the popular, majority will of the legislature. In America if two wolves vote to eat the lamb, the Supreme Court steps in and invokes the Bill of Rights to protect the lamb.

Unfortunately (from an individual liberty point of view) for English subjects, and the people in all majority rule systems with no structural judicial protection for political minorities, which is most countries in Western Europe, the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom (established only in 2009) has no jurisdiction to protect political minorities from tyranny by parliamentary majorities. In majority rule systems such as the United Kingdom if two wolves vote to eat the lamb, then the lamb is history.

The focus by the political culture and the political system of the United States on the rights of the individual represents the sharpest difference in political philosophy between America and Western European democracies. The failure to recognize and to understand this fundamental difference in political philosophy helps to explain why Western Europeans often are baffled by the machinations of the political and the judicial systems in America.



(Tom, thank you very much for your immediately preceding post enforcing the ban on political discussion. I apologize for getting somewhat close to the line in my own posts on this thread.

Please know that I consider this post to be purely of a comparative political science nature, and to not be in the nature of the political discussion we proscribe on WBF.)

Uhmm, I don’t think the UK system works quite like that...remember it is based on the power of the crown. May want to do a little research on the power of the royalty, you may be very surprised.

Right now in the US, it would seem that the Supreme Court is about to be ..shall we say...modified. Theoretically, Supreme Court judges are all supposed to make decisions based solely on the aspect of law and justice...and not be influenced by any political bent...which as we are all discovering, seems to be an impossible task for all involved.

 

[dcc]

Don’t forget that there are supranational courts of justice in Western Europe:

- The European Court of Human Rights which is the ultimate safeguard for the implementation of the European Convention on Human Rights (47 Member States of the Council of Europe). National Courts of Justice are bound to follow the jurisprudence of the European Court of Human Rights
- The European Court of Justice (ECJ) which is the ultimate safeguard regarding the implementation of the EU treaty and all EU driven legislation

You cannot generalise the idiosyncrasies of each Western European judicial system and making such bold misrepresentation by stating that minorities are unprotected.

 

[DaveyF]

Don’t forget that there are supranational courts of justice in Western Europe:

- The European Court of Human Rights which is the ultimate safeguard for the implementation of the European Convention on Human Rights (47 Member States of the Council of Europe). National Courts of Justice are bound to follow the jurisprudence of the European Court of Human Rights
- The European Court of Justice (ECJ) which is the ultimate safeguard regarding the implementation of the EU treaty and all EU driven legislation

You cannot generalise the idiosyncrasies of each Western European judicial system and making such bold misrepresentation by stating that minorities are unprotected.

+1

 

[Barry2013]

Thank you for your gracious opening, but I am afraid I have to disagree with the above.

One of the primary roles of the United States Supreme Court is to protect individuals, whose liberties are guaranteed to them by the Bill of Rights in the Constitution of the United States, against the popular, majority will of the legislature. In America if two wolves vote to eat the lamb, the Supreme Court steps in and invokes the Bill of Rights to protect the lamb.

Unfortunately (from an individual liberty point of view) for English subjects, and the people in all majority rule systems with no structural judicial protection for political minorities, which is most countries in Western Europe, the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom (established only in 2009) has no jurisdiction to protect political minorities from tyranny by parliamentary majorities. In majority rule systems such as the United Kingdom if two wolves vote to eat the lamb, then the lamb is history.

The focus by the political culture and the political system of the United States on the rights of the individual represents the sharpest difference in political philosophy between America and Western European democracies. The failure to recognize and to understand this fundamental difference in political philosophy helps to explain why Western Europeans often are baffled by the machinations of the political and the judicial systems in America.



(Tom, thank you very much for your immediately preceding post enforcing the ban on political discussion. I apologize for getting somewhat close to the line in my own posts on this thread.

Please know that I consider this post to be purely of a comparative political science nature, and to not be in the nature of the political discussion we proscribe on WBF.)

Cor blimey Ron where on earth did those perceptions come from?
Please allow me to redress the balance with some independent and objective data readily and freely available through Google
World Justice Project top 5 countries for judicial independence and the rule of law:
1 The Netherlands
2 Sweden
3 Finland
4 Norway
5 Denmark
UK 12, Canada 14 and the USA 19
They used 8 factors for their study namely constraints on government powers, absence of corruption,openess of governmments,fundamental rights,order and security, regulatory enforcement, civil justice and criminal justice systems
Need I say more

 

[Pb Blimp]

Okay, gentlemen. Enough with the political talk. It happens no more on this thread. The next person who speaks about anything political will enjoy an involuntary 3 day vacation from the WBF.

Political discussion are against the TOS of this board. If you need a refresher, here is the link >>> http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?1207-Terms-Of-Service

Here is the actual rule that is consistently being ignore on this thread >>> 10. Posting topics involving politics, religion or firearms are not allowed and will be removed with appropriate warnings issued to the member. Repeated offenses can result in membership ban.

We do rule with a gentle hand but this has got to stop.....and will stop now. If you post anything political, please know now that you will enjoy a vacation from the WBF whether you like it or not. The second offense or any complaining about getting banned or not being able to talk about political things will get you a week vacation.

It all stops now. Consider this a very friendly warning. There will be no second warning, only a vacation. Thank you for understanding, now let's get back to the topic at hand.

With that said, this thread will be closed for 1 day so that everyone involved gets this message.

Tom

I hope I don't get a wuppin for this but I wish we had a Forum-approved venue to have such discussions as long as civil discourse is maintained. I realize a civility condition to such a venue is made difficult by the controversial nature of such discussions, but I feel these times of extreme social polarity mandate more than at any time in my life the exchange of well reasoned ideas amongst intelligent, informed, passionate people like our members. We are broken and getting more so every day. Our best hope is the free exchange of ideas in a socratic fashion amongst those who care about the future--all in pursuit of enlightenment. It must start somewhere.

 

[PeterA]

I hope I don't get a wuppin for this but I wish we had a Forum-approved venue to have such discussions as long as civil discourse is maintained. I realize a civility condition to such a venue is made difficult by the controversial nature of such discussions, but I feel these times of extreme social polarity mandate more than at any time in my life the exchange of well reasoned ideas amongst intelligent, informed, passionate people like our members. We are broken and getting more so every day. Our best hope is the free exchange of ideas in a socratic fashion amongst those who care about the future--all in pursuit of enlightenment. It must start somewhere.

Excellent post. It does start with dialogue. Discussing differences is more enlightening than to simply share similar opinions among like-minded friends. Al M. and I have had some disagreements over dinner before leaving to listen to one of our systems together. We usually learn from the talks, the listening, and our friendship, though we often disagree. The interesting thing is discovering where there is common ground and respecting opposing points of view. We would never learn this if "politics" was off limits when we get together.

Having written that, I really don't know if such a discussion forum would be good for this wonderful site. Being face to face helps. I think it might be worth trying, but I know full well that it might be a spectacular failure.

 

[ddk]

I hope I don't get a wuppin for this but I wish we had a Forum-approved venue to have such discussions as long as civil discourse is maintained. I realize a civility condition to such a venue is made difficult by the controversial nature of such discussions, but I feel these times of extreme social polarity mandate more than at any time in my life the exchange of well reasoned ideas amongst intelligent, informed, passionate people like our members. We are broken and getting more so every day. Our best hope is the free exchange of ideas in a socratic fashion amongst those who care about the future--all in pursuit of enlightenment. It must start somewhere.

+1! Been requesting a What's The Best in politics for a very long time !

david

 

[Folsom]

+1! Been requesting a What's The Best in politics for a very long time !

david

Make it private, for members that have X amount of posts, not visible to the public at all... you know it is going to be either a hot bed for moderation or needs to be mostly a hands-off zone to give them time to eat meals.

 

[DaveyF]

While open discussion is usually a healthy and enlightening thing, do we really believe that anyone here is going to be swayed from their strong political bent with this endeavor? I sure don't....unfortunately.

 

[Empirical Audio]

I hope I don't get a wuppin for this but I wish we had a Forum-approved venue to have such discussions as long as civil discourse is maintained. I realize a civility condition to such a venue is made difficult by the controversial nature of such discussions, but I feel these times of extreme social polarity mandate more than at any time in my life the exchange of well reasoned ideas amongst intelligent, informed, passionate people like our members. We are broken and getting more so every day. Our best hope is the free exchange of ideas in a socratic fashion amongst those who care about the future--all in pursuit of enlightenment. It must start somewhere.

We need this more than ever in US history. It would be a public service if WBF did it. The same civility requirements of other forums apply.

Steve N.

 

[KeithR]

I hope I don't get a wuppin for this but I wish we had a Forum-approved venue to have such discussions as long as civil discourse is maintained. I realize a civility condition to such a venue is made difficult by the controversial nature of such discussions, but I feel these times of extreme social polarity mandate more than at any time in my life the exchange of well reasoned ideas amongst intelligent, informed, passionate people like our members. We are broken and getting more so every day. Our best hope is the free exchange of ideas in a socratic fashion amongst those who care about the future--all in pursuit of enlightenment. It must start somewhere.

There is no civil discourse as we've seen time and time again. See two pages ago for the latest example.

I'll be happy to resign my WBF membership if this occurs. If you want to chat politics with people on the internet, plenty of other venues to do so. Nothing is stopping you and others from joining another forum to do so together. The question you should be asking is why politics has a place on an audio forum.

 

[KeithR]

While open discussion is usually a healthy and enlightening thing, do we really believe that anyone here is going to be swayed from their strong political bent with this endeavor? I sure don't....unfortunately.

+1. It just pisses everybody off in the end.

 

[Folsom]

I don't believe it is very productive, either. If it is going to happen I really do not wish for it to be plastered in Google searches.

But the arguement that there "is plenty of other places" I actually no longer buy at all. Where? And do they have half smart people even? Forum members here don't tend to be a bunch of morons that know nothing, so even when disagreeing it can be better conversation, often. I think people prefer to talk about politics in circles where they can feel akin enough to believe there is a point. So I don't particularly think there is much for other avenues, in the same way. That is not how I feel about many other topics, but at the same time I expect some spill-over. People like to engage with people they know.

 

[Empirical Audio]

There is no civil discourse as we've seen time and time again. See two pages ago for the latest example.

I'll be happy to resign my WBF membership if this occurs. If you want to chat politics with people on the internet, plenty of other venues to do so. Nothing is stopping you and others from joining another forum to do so together. The question you should be asking is why politics has a place on an audio forum.

There are forums for practically everything here. You don't have to read them.

The benefit of having this here is that it is not a tribal site. Most political specific forums are just rally points for the tribes, with a few invaders from the other tribe trying to upset things. This would be a wide cross-section of people from both tribes in a relatively neutral forum. The other benefit I believe is that most people that can afford and understand high-end audio are educated and informed, not ignorant. If they are not informed, then they can learn something. Life is about learning and understanding the other side.

Steve N.

 

[rockitman]

+1! Been requesting a What's The Best in politics for a very long time !

david

It will never work unless there are two separate poli forums...one for conservative, one for liberal. IME liberals and conservatives don't mix well these days

 

[Pb Blimp]

I don't believe it is very productive, either. If it is going to happen I really do not wish for it to be plastered in Google searches.

But the arguement that there "is plenty of other places" I actually no longer buy at all. Where? And do they have half smart people even? Forum members here don't tend to be a bunch of morons that know nothing, so even when disagreeing it can be better conversation, often. I think people prefer to talk about politics in circles where they can feel akin enough to believe there is a point. So I don't particularly think there is much for other avenues, in the same way. That is not how I feel about many other topics, but at the same time I expect some spill-over. People like to engage with people they know.

There are forums for practically everything here. You don't have to read them.

The benefit of having this here is that it is not a tribal site. Most political specific forums are just rally points for the tribes, with a few invaders from the other tribe trying to upset things. This would be a wide cross-section of people from both tribes in a relatively neutral forum. The other benefit I believe is that most people that can afford and understand high-end audio are educated, not ignorant.

Steve N.

Wow, maybe there is hope for the world after all. I do not think I disagree with two people on this Forum more than the two of you yet I 100% emphatically agree with these two posts. Well done gentlemen.

 

[KeithR]

There are forums for practically everything here. You don't have to read them.

The benefit of having this here is that it is not a tribal site. Most political specific forums are just rally points for the tribes, with a few invaders from the other tribe trying to upset things. This would be a wide cross-section of people from both tribes in a relatively neutral forum. The other benefit I believe is that most people that can afford and understand high-end audio are educated and informed, not ignorant. If they are not informed, then they can learn something. Life is about learning and understanding the other side.

Steve N.

Bc you are one of the bigger offenders. Go start a yahoo group and talk all you want.

I couldn’t care less what any of you guys think about politics. I want to read about your digital opinions. Every other audio forum is the same, WBF is no different.