Your "World's Best Audio System" . . . 2012 Edition

[docvale]

I'm with microstrip on this one, Jeff. No need to turn this into a competition, or an exercise in consensus-building. Put together your idea of the world's best audio system, thoroughly enjoy yourself in the process, describe the journey and the results with articulate passion...that will make for a great read.

Tim

Makes sense.
As I told before, having two amplifications (SS and tubes), would be interesting as it would represent two different philosophies in targeting "the best" in music reproduction. This notwithstanding, I agree with the opinion that TWBAS should be, by definition, one.
The scientific approach to build TWBAS could imply a challenge between components, from source to accessories, despite the proclamation of winner and losers would probably discourage some manufacturers to participate to the game, as nobody is looking for bad revisions (even if only by comparison).
I wish Jeff's journey will occur with the ability to screen a number of alternatives before announcing TWBAS: those alternatives could stay in the dark, then

 

[KeithR]

I'm not saying they don't have their charms, Mike. But for my part, they are at least matched by their limitations.

Tim

Tim- have you heard a SOTA SET system? you seem to disparage low-power tubes.

 

[KeithR]

i'm late to this thread. however, i have a different viewpoint on having two different systems. for a number of reasons, even at the very tip top of performance, having one system with multiple sources, and multiple amplifiication approaches is better.

the trick, of course, is to have a SOTA speaker system which is flexible in terms of amplification......so low powered tube amps are an option, yet the benefits of higher power full frequency performance can also be enjoyed. currently; it's an approach i'm taking with my own system where i've got 3-4 watt 2A3 tube amps on the way to alternate with my darTZeel amps. there are a number of other speakers, such as the Wilson X-2's, which also can work in this same way. does changing amps require also changing preamps to still be optimized? so far, it seems not.

i do want 2 viewpoints on the music without compromise.....yet i want all the source and media choices equal for both.

i think doing justice to the very best sources is better for one room, even media management is better for one room. of course, i'm assuming 2-channel listening and not HT.

100% agree. the trend for all manufacturers should be to design more flexible systems when it comes to amplification. that was one of my first criteria before picking up my current speakers.

 

[Steve williams]

My speakers are 95 Db efficient and I have never had a problem driving them with my 18 wpc Lamm Ml 2.1 and now my Lamm ML 3's at 32 wpc

 

[KeithR]

Steve, yes there are quite a few SETs that are higher powered and will drive 90+db speakers.

the 6c33-based Lamms as you own---also 845/211/Gm70-based SETS. while perhaps not as pure in the midrange as a 45, they are not dynamically constricted.

 

[naturephoto1]

Steve, yes there are quite a few SETs that are higher powered and will drive 90+db speakers.

the 6c33-based Lamms as you own---also 845/211/Gm70-based SETS. while perhaps not as pure in the midrange as a 45, they are not dynamically constricted.

Though many will argue that the First Watt SS amps are not SOTA they offer a range of Class A SS amps in the 10 watt to 25 watt into 8 ohms in SE or SE/Balanced input form. My First Watt M2 Power amp easily supplies enough power in my room for my highly effiecient (105 DB/1w/1m) OMA New Yorker horns speakers.

Rich

 

[FrantzM]

Hi
OT (well... somewhat )

I don't listen to music that loud .. I , however have measured 110 dB in Live Classical concert. I l want my gear to reproduce such level when called for as cleanly as possible... 18 Watts of SET can't. It may distort gracefully but distort it will if pushed past 25 watts ... neither can 36 watts of SET. (Assuming a real world case of staying at 3~4 meters from the speakers) ... To me that is a limitation. Although the best SETamps have become more adequate in the frequency extremes those regions remain their weak point.. No one will ever confuse the highs or bass from a SET with that of a higher amplifier be it tube or SS... I respect what the best SET do .. I think however that SOTA in amps belong to a different circuit topology

 

[microstrip]

My speakers are 95 Db efficient and I have never had a problem driving them with my 18 wpc Lamm Ml 2.1 and now my Lamm ML 3's at 32 wpc

Do you know if the Maxx3 can be driven by a Lamm ML2.1?

 

[Bruce B]

Do you know if the Maxx3 can be driven by a Lamm ML2.1?

X-2 sensitivity is 94.5dB at 4 ohms and the MAXX3 is 91dB at 4 ohms. You could certainly drive it, but not to it's full potential. My Pass Labs XA-100.5 amps were slightly struggling during loud transients.

 

[microstrip]

Hi
OT (well... somewhat )

I don't listen to music that loud .. I , however have measured 110 dB in Live Classical concert. I l want my gear to reproduce such level when called for as cleanly as possible... 18 Watts of SET can't. (...)

From my experience using peak measurements in dBC (C-weighted) if I set maximum level for 110 dB peak at the listening position the average sound will be too loud for comfortable listening. Could you nominate the classical recording and, if possible, the moment of it that you usually listen at 110 dB?

 

[Steve williams]

Frantz

You know I respectfully disagree with you.

As far as the MAXX 3 being driven by the ML 2.1, it can with ease.

In fact I would suggest searching the Soundstage archives and you will find a review by Jeff's predecessor, Marc who did that very review With MAXX3 and ML 2.1

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim- have you heard a SOTA SET system? you seem to disparage low-power tubes.

I have. I've heard SETs with horn-loaded full range driver systems that sounded very good, within their limitations, to me. I just find SET to be very limiting because it typically doesn't have enough headroom for most speakers. I'm also just not personally a big fan of tube tone. But then again, I haven't heard everything...

Tim

 

[KeithR]

Hi
OT (well... somewhat )

I don't listen to music that loud .. I , however have measured 110 dB in Live Classical concert. I l want my gear to reproduce such level when called for as cleanly as possible... 18 Watts of SET can't. It may distort gracefully but distort it will if pushed past 25 watts ... neither can 36 watts of SET. (Assuming a real world case of staying at 3~4 meters from the speakers) ... To me that is a limitation. Although the best SETamps have become more adequate in the frequency extremes those regions remain their weak point.. No one will ever confuse the highs or bass from a SET with that of a higher amplifier be it tube or SS... I respect what the best SET do .. I think however that SOTA in amps belong to a different circuit topology

To be fair Frantz, you aren't mentioning what speaker you are driving with SET. My Zu Def2s can easily be driven to 110dbs with SET amplification--and they aren't horns.

I've heard 1000 watt monoblocks on SOTA speakers not seem near as dynamic or immediate as my system with a 25 watt SET. go figure eh?

 

[Ron Party]

The math is indisputable. If one listens to the kinds of lower powered amps currently being discussed here at sufficient volume and plays music with sufficient crest factors, the lower powered amps simply will not pull it off.

 

[microstrip]

The math is indisputable. If one listens to the kinds of lower powered amps currently being discussed here at sufficient volume and plays music with sufficient crest factors, the lower powered amps simply will not pull it off.

Although the math is indisputable, the physics is not

Most of the time the only data we have about speaker efficiency is the averaged anechoic data measured at 1m with pink noise, that is far from what we get in real rooms. Calculus made with this data are sometimes a very poor approximation and can explain some surprises.

 

[FrantzM]

To be fair Frantz, you aren't mentioning what speaker you are driving with SET. My Zu Def2s can easily be driven to 110dbs with SET amplification--and they aren't horns.

I've heard 1000 watt monoblocks on SOTA speakers not seem near as dynamic or immediate as my system with a 25 watt SET. go figure eh?

Point well taken .. with 101 dB or higher an 18 watts SET will play in its most comfortable zone.. rarely hitting its max output .. for most speakers however I would defer to Ron last post ...
The last part of your post requires a thread in itself... I have come to the conclusion that there is something special going on on this front with sensitive speakers ... This is consistent with High Sensitivity speakers. I would put the cutoff at 93 dB .. Higher better... I find myself very attracted by these .. most of the speaker I care for these days are in that region.. some above 93 dB

 

[Steve williams]

The math is indisputable. If one listens to the kinds of lower powered amps currently being discussed here at sufficient volume and plays music with sufficient crest factors, the lower powered amps simply will not pull it off.

A watt is a watt and it is the first watt which is most important. I have yet to hear my ML3's clip at near ear bleeding SPL.

 

[KeithR]

On 2 watt 45-based amps, Ron is correct.

 

[Jeff Fritz]

My take is that high sensitivity is valuable, but not at the expense of other criteria such as linearity. I would not sacrifice low coloration for high sensitivity. But I would like to have it all.

Also, it should be noted that specs are one thing, reality another. The classic case is the Coincident speaker that we reviewed a number of years back. The claim was 94dB. The reality was 86dB when we measured it.

 

[Steve williams]

Well the reality is that if the chosen speakers have high efficiency many tube amps perform just fine. My amp also uses the GM-70 as a DHT SET.

I just feel strongly that the time is ripe to consider such efficient speakers with the use of a properly matched tube amp and tube preamp. There has been strong enough sentiment here to warrant such. Otherwise the thread is nothing more than a laundry list