Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[Folsom]

I was still trying to find my way to "Life" during those golden years in the 60's Mike.
I started listening to English spoken songs when the Bee Gees, Abba and Carpenter were hits. The Scorpion and Queen were Rocks I started listening to. Stll now not really into Rocks.

kind regards,
Tang

I guess you have a lot to be grateful for with learning about different music and stereos. Bee Gees, Carpenters...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I was still trying to find my way to "Life" during those golden years in the 60's Mike.
I started listening to English spoken songs when the Bee Gees, Abba and Carpenter were hits. The Scorpion and Queen were Rocks I started listening to. Stll now not really into Rocks.

* Not to forget the Air Supply.

kind regards,
Tang

i think 'guilty pleasures' exist in every genre. great pop music is a legit way to ease into classic rock. i enjoy the music you mention, jazz, blues and classical have similar 'less aggressive' choices.

classic 60's rock is an acquired taste. i can see how it's would be hard to just step into. no rules for this stuff.

Bee Gees, the Carpenters, and Air Supply are all favorites of mine too. great music. they don't have the same degree of personal connection as my favorite classic rock but are musically excellent.

 

[bonzo75]

Bill, it was an lp from the demoers. It wasn't badly worn. Just had typical amounts of typical user wear. This is irrelevant to the point that it wasn't the usual audiophile fodder found in many horns demos. The vinyl here might be more pristine, but is invariably chosen to best suit the horns being demoed.

Re AGs, even though my ship re horns has passed, had I gone horns it would have been with a choice not incl Class D to woofered subs. Hence not AG.

I think instead of saying horns or otherwise, you have to think if you prefer closed baffle conal bass excursion to open baffle bass excursion for your prog rock. That is why you might like Zus and Barry's duos, both have closed box bass. So it might not be about class D. Trio the bass is not closed box. I appreciate the differences between closed baffle and open horn type bass for such music. Somehow apogees are the only open baffle speakers I know of that got that rock bass right and therefore I still consider them the best speakers for all rounded music, for those who have a fair diet of rock and vocals in addition to classical and jazz. That said, I wouldn't consciously audition them with inferior pressings either

 

[Tango]

This Dvorak Cello Concerto is also excellent. The cellist Is Ludwig Hoelscher. I looked into discog but could not find one. Instead I found this

https://www.discogs.com/Dvo?ák-Ludw...eilberth-Cello-Concerto-B-Min/release/7130404

I think it is the same performance but different pressing from Telefunken. I find good old records have a see through transparency like good direct to disc. The newer modern pressing have less surface noise but they are never as "nude" as the old ones. Nude means dimensionality, performance tangibility and higher degree in suspension of disbelief. This kind of recording clarity makes it addictive and make me forgive the clicks and pops more if it is not too bad.

Tang

 

[Folsom]

Same performance maybe. Yours was printed by Decca for Telefunken. I can’t find it, and price looks like it will soar.

 

[bonzo75]

Same performance maybe. Yours was printed by Decca for Telefunken. I can’t find it, and price looks like it will soar.

Not much point buying these LPs which are not easily available. People will get battered copies. That said, I have a good one . audiophiles have rarely heard of hoelscher, but his prices are already up there

 

[bonzo75]

The above was a pic I took from General's auction sometime ago. Stupid people who bid

 

[Folsom]

Not even sure I wanted to see that. It’s a little bit surpressive for us youngens, especially anyone wanting to get into it. It makes you weigh life priorities when you realize a few hundred of these LP’s could pay for trips around the world in first class.

 

[bonzo75]

Not even sure I wanted to see that. It’s a little bit surpressive for us youngens, especially anyone wanting to get into it. It makes you weigh life priorities when you realize a few hundred of these LP’s could pay for trips around the world in first class.

I agree. But the point I want to make is not about the prices. It is about why do audiophiles not know Hoelscher. One of the YouTube clips that tang referred to above that I had sent him to attract him to classical was Hoelscher playing the dvorak. And you can see some people are bidding crazy money for Hoelscher originals. So why do audiophiles keep sticking to playing movie sound effects?

The other thing is that the classical catalog of classic records (which I like for sound, btw, and for the reproduction of some performances - not everyone can get originals and I respect the decision to not spend on them) is geared to classical pieces which do not cover many great performers, but instead focus on those allowing for tweaked bass and soundstage.

 

[Folsom]

I like performances, but if it doesn't sound good then I can save it for digital on the computer or in the car. I have plenty of only good, not great, albums that I still play because I like them. But once they fall below good, it's just so MEH that I don't spin them. I don't really feel like it's my problem for not being able to get excited by some piss poor simulacra of the real thing that excites me/people.

Trust me, I scour looking for hidden gems of pressings. But the truth is audiophiles have been around so long that there isn't a lot. I almost had a line on a collection to buy but it was given away before I could... probably nothing good happened to it. Maybe I should look forward 20 years when everyone else is dieing and maybe then the value will be so low I'll have more good vinyl than I know what to do with.

 

[Folsom]

And on another note, thanks for bringing up Hoelscher, Tang. I cannot say that I knew about Hoelscher prior.

*Edit: WOW prices are nuts, across the board for any label that is any good.

 

[bonzo75]

I like performances, but if it doesn't sound good then I can save it for digital on the computer or in the car. I have plenty of only good, not great, albums that I still play because I like them. But once they fall below good, it's just so MEH that I don't spin them. I don't really feel like it's my problem for not being able to get excited by some piss poor simulacra of the real thing that excites me/people.

Trust me, I scour looking for hidden gems of pressings. But the truth is audiophiles have been around so long that there isn't a lot. I almost had a line on a collection to buy but it was given away before I could... probably nothing good happened to it. Maybe I should look forward 20 years when everyone else is dieing and maybe then the value will be so low I'll have more good vinyl than I know what to do with.

It is fine to go with digital. Somehow, in case you haven't noticed the trend on the forum, digital people Usually aware only of modern performances and analog ones seem to be the ones into the golden era ones. Some digital guys are also choosing lesser performances for better sonics (similar to some tape guys) such as many of these DSD sites that are now cropping up with cafe performances

My biggest learning from the general has not been the sonics of analog, but of the performances that I was missing before that, as my view was clouded only by the audiophile press. I think tang will tell you the same..Those who cannot afford expensive LPs on well set up analog systems should investigate Hoelscher and other golden era artists on digital.

 

[Folsom]

I don't really want digital for audiophile stuff really, just as a way to enjoy music not with my stereo. I like a lot of old performances MUCH more than new ones.

 

[tima]

Trust me, I scour looking for hidden gems of pressings.

Maybe too contemporary for you ('83), but here's one:


Deutsche Harmonia Mundi ?– DHL 20401.03

https://www.discogs.com/JS-Bach-Sig...our-Violon-Seul-BWV-1001-1006/release/4020391

Yes, Grumiaux too on Philips.

 

[bonzo75]

Maybe too contemporary for you ('83), but here's one:

View attachment 50210
Deutsche Harmonia Mundi ?– DHL 20401.03

https://www.discogs.com/JS-Bach-Sig...our-Violon-Seul-BWV-1001-1006/release/4020391

Yes, Grumiaux too on Philips.

This is very good but I don't see much point in recommending relatively lower cost LPs as they will become expensive. Best is to recommend good expensive ones that you have no intention of buying

 

[bonzo75]

I don't really want digital for audiophile stuff really, just as a way to enjoy music not with my stereo. I like a lot of old performances MUCH more than new ones.

Digital can be really good on classical if handled properly, especially given that you do not have SETs and horns and you have a budget consideration

 

[kodomo]

This Dvorak Cello Concerto is also excellent. The cellist Is Ludwig Hoelscher. I looked into discog but could not find one. Instead I found this

https://www.discogs.com/Dvo?ák-Ludw...eilberth-Cello-Concerto-B-Min/release/7130404

I think it is the same performance but different pressing from Telefunken. I find good old records have a see through transparency like good direct to disc. The newer modern pressing have less surface noise but they are never as "nude" as the old ones. Nude means dimensionality, performance tangibility and higher degree in suspension of disbelief. This kind of recording clarity makes it addictive and make me forgive the clicks and pops more if it is not too bad.

Tang

Isn't it, this one: https://www.discogs.com/Dvorak-Ludw...seph-Keilberth-Cello-Concerto/release/5016115

 

[tima]

This is very good but I don't see much point in recommending relatively lower cost LPs as they will become expensive. Best is to recommend good expensive ones that you have no intention of buying

Meh. You're hung up on price.

 

[tima]

But the point I want to make is not about the prices. It is about why do audiophiles not know Hoelscher.

Ludwig Hoelscher was in a Trio founded by Elly Ney (piano) and a violinist. Ney was an active member of the Nazi Party. Don't know about Hoelscher, but the trio performed in Berlin during the war years. Don't underestimate the impact of that association, particularly in post-war Europe particularly in the '50s. Don't know if that is a reason that audiophiles or non-audiophiles do not know Hoelscher but it probably is. Popularity has a context.

The same may be true for East German conductors - the DDR wasn't keen on losing conductors. It took time for some to gain/regain recognition. Sanderling, Fricke, Kurt Masur ended up at the NY Philharmonic, and others.

Edit: To further the point ... Joseph Keilberth, the very conductor of the Hoelscher album of which Tang posted a picture, was kicked out of Czechoslovakia at the end of the war, perhaps spurred on by the Soviets. Regardless of musical talent, during that time many Germans were shunned by countries around Germany.

 

[bonzo75]

Ludwig Hoelscher was in a Trio founded by Elly Ney (piano) and a violinist. Ney was an active member of the Nazi Party. Don't know about Hoelscher, but the trio performed in Berlin during the war years. Don't underestimate the impact of that association, particularly in post-war Europe particularly in the '50s. Don't know if that is a reason that audiophiles or non-audiophiles do not know Hoelscher but it probably is. Popularity has a context.

The same may be true for East German conductors - the DDR wasn't keen on losing conductors. It took time for some to gain/regain recognition. Sanderling, Fricke, Kurt Masur ended up at the NY Philharmonic, and others.

I tried to bid on a Ney hoelscher LP. It was at 10 or so. As the days got closer, it ran up to beyond levels in no time. I actually believed for a few days I had seen this unnoticed