Zero Distortion: The General's System - Pnoe, Thomas Mayer, Vyger, Original LPs

[Audiophile Bill]

Try them now Bill...

Cheers - can see now

 

[Zero000]

Very


Very very well said, Justin! It is a crazy bloody thing that driver. If you ever get the chance to hear the BD5...

The perceived resolution and clarity was truly outstanding, I felt. What a brilliant tracker of the input signal, I thought. Just so much information "making it through" without any veiling. It IS a brilliant driver, but that said the speaker itself doesn't do what I would want in the bass department. Mids and treble outstanding, bass not so much. But it was still better than I was expecting given the near field listening/compromised room.

BD3 might be more interesting. What can it do in a well sorted DIY design? Quite a lot for the money I suspect.

Hopefully a BD5 will make Munich, which is about the only place I'd have a chance of listening to it.

 

[bonzo75]

I think amp match is also very important here as seen from 211 to Nat magma to Ypsilon hybrid. I think is more important than BD4 to BD5. BD4 with the 46 is quite good. It will also be interesting to hear this with 45s and 2a3 and PX25 type amps. In Munich I did not like at all, I ran out leaving Justin there

 

[wisnon]

Hahah. Living dangerously Bill.
Your situation can quickly become tragico. LoL

 

[bonzo75]

Modified Lowther PM4s were only used in the very earliest Dionisio's, all subsequent models from around late 94 were Bé's own Cantus driver, which went through at least 5 or 6 incarnations which Pietro has described on his own thread.

Cantus, you seem quite knowledgeable. May I ask what speakers and amps you are using, and are you also located in the land of food?

 

[Zero000]

I think amp match is also very important here as seen from 211 to Nat magma to Ypsilon hybrid. I think is more important than BD4 to BD5. BD4 with the 46 is quite good. It will also be interesting to hear this with 45s and 2a3 and PX25 type amps. In Munich I did not like at all, I ran out leaving Justin there

Yeah, I was going to say. Ked was genuinely not happy in there LOL. I was enjoying talking to the designer, whatever his name was. I was also playing a CD I know very well, so I was in a position to know how that sounds on a few systems.

 

[jeff1225]

It should have been - then Magico might have sounded ok .

Just kidding before Magico crew kill me.

Run.....

 

[bonzo75]

I will link this to my blog later, but to add,

General as well as Bill use Vyger, and it has supreme transparency. It shocked me to the point that I thought I had wasted many previous trips without this insight.

Also, this is an extract from Marshall Nack on the Vyger, earlier generations, written in 2009 in PF:

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue4...r_atlantis.htm

“One after the other, I lined up original pressings from the most highly regarded LP labels: RCA, Capital, Vanguard, Lyrita, Decca, Argo, even modern LPs on Harmonia Mundi and EMI from the twilight of the LP era.
All sounded splendid, all sounded different, and all displayed the skills of each engineering team. Each label's house sound was clear as day.”


I think he wrote it back then because he did not find it to this extent in the tables he auditioned, Bill and I hadn't heard it to this extent either, and explains one of the reasons, apart from linear tracking, why it is an obvious choice for someone like G

 

[morricab]

The latest very exciting project - old Accoustat panels given a new lease of life - still in development mode - driven by a Modjeski direct drive ESL amp - output 4000 volts at 1/3 amps - NOT - pet or child friendly in development mode.

View attachment 47611

Old Acoustat panels are one of the best full-range drivers ever invented I think.

 

[ALF]

Old Acoustat panels are one of the best full-range drivers ever invented I think.

I agree, decades ago, I had a pair of the twin towers...sweet!

Cheers!
ALF

 

[ALF]

Hello Ked,

I really enjoyed reading your observations and thoughts with this wonderful writeup regarding your visit with the kind general...many, many, thanks!!

Kind Regards,
Alan

 

[PeterA]

It should have been - then Magico might have sounded ok .

Just kidding before Magico crew kill me.

Other than this post, I doubt you will hear anything from those who enjoy Magico speakers. I actually didn't know we had that kind of a reputation.

Even Jeffrey_t tolerated my system.

Carry on. This thread is fun reading.

 

[jeff1225]

Other than this post, I doubt you will hear anything from those who enjoy Magico speakers. I actually didn't know we had that kind of a reputation.

Even Jeffrey_t tolerated my system.

Carry on. This thread is fun reading.

Wrong! I throughly enjoyed your system. Magico + Pass is the secret sauce for me.

 

[DaveC]

The perceived resolution and clarity was truly outstanding, I felt. What a brilliant tracker of the input signal, I thought. Just so much information "making it through" without any veiling. It IS a brilliant driver, but that said the speaker itself doesn't do what I would want in the bass department. Mids and treble outstanding, bass not so much. But it was still better than I was expecting given the near field listening/compromised room.

BD3 might be more interesting. What can it do in a well sorted DIY design? Quite a lot for the money I suspect.

Hopefully a BD5 will make Munich, which is about the only place I'd have a chance of listening to it.

A friend has the 1s and I've had the 3s. Both are excellent drivers with differences more on the subtle side of things... I'd tend to think the 4s and 5s might not be actually better, maybe just more efficient but IDK. I think it's cool that that the efficiency is so high on the 4s/5s but it's not necessary and the price is high simply because other drivers cost a lot too, if they didn't they would never be seen as competitors to the top end Feastrex and Voxativ drivers.

I've also never been a fan of BLH, honestly don't see the point. Most are disjointed and sound really off to me. I've only heard one, the Lamhorn with AER BD1s, that sounded decent but still not extended enough to not need reinforcement anyways. There's a lot of really amazing woofers out there these days that can easily "keep up" with fast drivers like AER, Lowther, Feastrex, etc. Also, there is the intermodulation issue with wide range drivers that limit SPLs to fairly low levels before the IMD becomes unbearable. And even at lower volumes it keeps complex music from being recreated cleanly.

I remember years ago when Feastrex via Lotus group made a big push for Feastrex and they had a bunch of BLH designs that were all basically failures... turns out after a lot of effort a simple ported box works best. And I tend to agree with that, a simple ported box is probably the best overall design for bass reproduction without getting into massive horns.

That said, there is a lot of excellent things to love about a single driver and all speakers are very compromised. But like most things, there is a middle road that works best for me, and that includes using woofers and tweeters.

 

[KeithR]

I remember years ago when Feastrex via Lotus group made a big push for Feastrex and they had a bunch of BLH designs that were all basically failures... turns out after a lot of effort a simple ported box works best. And I tend to agree with that, a simple ported box is probably the best overall design for bass reproduction without getting into massive horns.

That Lotus Granada was a good sounding speaker at several shows years ago. Kind of a one-off, hence the high price though.

 

[DaveC]

That Lotus Granada was a good sounding speaker at several shows years ago. Kind of a one-off, hence the high price though.

One of the best speakers I've ever heard. Still available afaik!

I believe it uses $50k Feastrex field coil drivers.

 

[bonzo75]

How is the vapor nimbus

 

[DaveC]

How is the vapor nimbus

PM sent! Don't want to derail things.

 

[PeterA]

And I tend to agree with that, a simple ported box is probably the best overall design for bass reproduction without getting into massive horns.

Dave, why do you prefer a ported box to a sealed box for bass reproduction? Is it about efficiency, tone, or something else?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

A friend has the 1s and I've had the 3s. Both are excellent drivers with differences more on the subtle side of things... I'd tend to think the 4s and 5s might not be actually better, maybe just more efficient but IDK. I think it's cool that that the efficiency is so high on the 4s/5s but it's not necessary and the price is high simply because other drivers cost a lot too, if they didn't they would never be seen as competitors to the top end Feastrex and Voxativ drivers.

I've also never been a fan of BLH, honestly don't see the point. Most are disjointed and sound really off to me. I've only heard one, the Lamhorn with AER BD1s, that sounded decent but still not extended enough to not need reinforcement anyways. There's a lot of really amazing woofers out there these days that can easily "keep up" with fast drivers like AER, Lowther, Feastrex, etc. Also, there is the intermodulation issue with wide range drivers that limit SPLs to fairly low levels before the IMD becomes unbearable. And even at lower volumes it keeps complex music from being recreated cleanly.

I remember years ago when Feastrex via Lotus group made a big push for Feastrex and they had a bunch of BLH designs that were all basically failures... turns out after a lot of effort a simple ported box works best. And I tend to agree with that, a simple ported box is probably the best overall design for bass reproduction without getting into massive horns.

That said, there is a lot of excellent things to love about a single driver and all speakers are very compromised. But like most things, there is a middle road that works best for me, and that includes using woofers and tweeters.

Hi Dave,

Honestly there is no comparison between the AER 3 and 4 let alone 4 and 5. I really didn’t want to believe it as I was set to get 4s but the improvement of the 5 is very large. Ask Kedar as he has heard both a lot like me - sounds like a totally new speaker and I promise I don’t exaggerate. In terms of “need” - well the whole hobby at this level isn’t so much about “need” as shooting for the best.

In terms of bass driver integration, what bass drivers would you suggest to keep up with an AER and what cabinet and crossover. I ask because I am designing a horn system right now so very curious and hungry for data points.