Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[sbo6]

Roon has for sure taken a turn for the worse, since the big Taiko software update in February. At that time, there was a period where Roon was sounding very good, but I think we all had that feeling that it was shortlived, and the other shoe would inevitably drop. It has. Roon has gotten worse again, and TAS is the gold standard.

IMO most folks on this forum and Audiophilestyle know that ROON's SQ is not its best attribute, the GUI and song management is. Many use ROON's front end with HQPlayer as the back end with phenomenal results. I believe not too long ago it was purported that ROON + HQP's sq was on par with Taiko's solution. I say this not to in any way disparage Taiko, only to inject a bit of reality that ROON alone is employed significantly less than assumed on this thread so the comparison to taiko's solution is predominantly meaningless.

 

[steve williams]

IMO most folks on this forum and Audiophilestyle know that ROON's SQ is not its best attribute, the GUI and song management is. Many use ROON's front end with HQPlayer as the back end with phenomenal results. I believe not too long ago it was purported that ROON + HQP's sq was on par with Taiko's solution. I say this not to in any way disparage Taiko, only to inject a bit of reality that ROON alone is employed significantly less than assumed on this thread so the comparison to taiko's solution is predominantly meaningless.

Actually IIRC I thought Emile said that 50% of Extreme owners use Roon

 

[Taiko Audio]

Actually IIRC I thought Emile said that 50% of Extreme owners use Roon

Indeed, I'd say even 60-65% right now. HQplayer is a downgrade since the last OS update versus Roon standalone.

 

[rau]

I find myself going back and forth Roon vs TAS depending on tube set I'm using in DAC hoping XDMS is the cure .

 

[wil]

Sorry if this question has been asked a dozen times before:

When you have to unplug (not reboot) the Extreme, what is the expected time span for it be back up to prior performance level?

And, will that time span be shorter, if the unplug to re-plug time is very short (like 10 seconds)?

 

[rando]

Sorry if this question has been asked a dozen times before:

When you have to unplug (not reboot) the Extreme, what is the expected time span for it be back up to prior performance level?

And, will that time span be shorter, if the unplug to re-plug time is very short (like 10 seconds)?

Depends on what the dancing pixies do once you close the lid on your music box.

10 seconds is an incredibly short curtain!

Imagine Emile will suggest you wring your program in the lobby over a nice piece of chocolate or some wine.



Are you moving the Extreme as well as unplugging?

 

[wil]

Depends on what the dancing pixies do once you close the lid on your music box.

10 seconds is an incredibly short curtain!

Imagine Emile will suggest you wring your program in the lobby over a nice piece of chocolate or some wine.



Are you moving the Extreme as well as unplugging?

No, will just be plugging in to a new receptacle. If focused, I think I can do it in 2.5 seconds!

 

[Rhapsody]

No, will just be plugging in to a new receptacle. If focused, I think I can do it in 2.5 seconds!

It's good to reboot the Extreme occasionally anyway. I doubt if you will be able to tell any difference other than it might sound better from re-booting it.

 

[John T]

@wil: Let me know what you observe when "Unplugging The Extreme" I have read from others that diminished SQ occurs, which in my opinion for this level of gear sounds bizarre. Whether its for 10 seconds or 10 minutes.

 

[Rhapsody]

@wil: Let me know what you observe when "Unplugging The Extreme" I have read from others that diminished SQ occurs, which in my opinion for this level of gear sounds bizarre. Whether its for 10 seconds or 10 minutes.

Re-booting occasionally has made my Extreme sound better after the re-boot. Clears the cobwebs. I reboot my Extreme every week. Unplugging it for a long time, many hours, can have a dip in performance until it settles again. That's true for ANY digital product. Level of gear or price of gear has nothing to do with it. It's is digital circuitry, it doesn't understand what level or how much it costs.

 

[John T]

@Rhapsody: I'm certain this has been posted before. Proper reboot Double Click Front, Turn Main Off in Back? Wait a couple of minutes, turn Main back on, then turn power on in front. Is this the proper protocol? Thanks

 

[Rhapsody]

@Rhapsody: I'm certain this has been posted before. Proper reboot Double Click Front, Turn Main Off in Back? Is this the proper protocol? Thanks

Yes, but for a "soft reboot" even just doing the double click on the front and then one click back on, is fine. I don't turn off the back switch on my weekly reboot, just the front double click/single click, unless I am going to unplug the Extreme.

Honestly my Extreme/system(s) sound amazing streaming regardless of what I do with the Extreme. Even rebooting, although slightly noticeable as being a good thing, it's more of a ritual, like turning off your computer or smart phone occasionally. Clears things out.

 

[John T]

@Rhapsody: Thank You...John

 

[Taiko Audio]

There is indeed a system wide "accumulation" effect over time which can sometimes be observed. Grounding tweaks do address, or rather affect this. It has nothing to do with the Extreme but it tends to "accumulate" on the largest mass component. I am not sure what causes this. I have had it in our system in Hengelo which back then consisted of the Totaldac D1-12mk2 and Audionet Stern/Heisenbergs. I never had to power cycle the Extreme which I could leave running for months at a time but the Totaldac and Audionet gear started to become less transparent sounding after around 5 days, as it was our office system I just powered everything except the Extreme off on Friday evening and powered it back on Monday morning.

A reboot does force a disconnect of the USB and network ports, unplugging / replugging these probably has a similar / if not the same effect. Some builds from Roon suffered from memory leaks and memory usage would increase over time, but Roon tends to fix these when they come across them.

I do not recommend powering off the Extreme regularly using the rear power switch, here it takes between 3 and 5 days to return to full Sound Quality. A soft reboot has slightly reduced sound quality for up to 20 minutes, largely determined by your Roon Database size.

 

[John T]

@Taiko Audio: Clear Explanation...bedankt...

 

[Taiko Audio]

@Taiko Audio: Clear Explanation...bedankt...

The latest build of Roon fixes some memory leaks.

Changes for Build 970:​

• Resolved a possible memory leak appearing during audio analysis
• Resolved a possible memory leak in the connection management mechanism
• Resolved an issue of remote slowdown after a certain period of time that could end up with a UI freeze
• Resolved a crash resulting from clicking on a mapped genre name on album details
• Resolved a crash that might occur in an attempt to open the Settings page
• Resolved an issue where TIDAL / Qobuz playlist could end up with an inactive play button
• Resolved an issue where Roon wouldn’t return search results on certain Windows machines
• Additional bugfixes and stability improvements

 

[wil]

Re-booting occasionally has made my Extreme sound better after the re-boot. Clears the cobwebs. I reboot my Extreme every week. Unplugging it for a long time, many hours, can have a dip in performance until it settles again. That's true for ANY digital product. Level of gear or price of gear has nothing to do with it. It's is digital circuitry, it doesn't understand what level or how much it costs.

I reboot as well at least twice a week (when TAS and Ext lose their handshake).

Instead, I'm talking about an unplugging which is a complete power down. If I'm not mistaken, I thought there was a several day period before Extreme was back to prior performance?

And the crux of my question beyond that, is whether a quick un-plug to re-plug in would make a difference in that time period?

 

[steve williams]

I reboot as well at least twice a week (when TAS and Ext lose their handshake).

Instead, I'm talking about an unplugging which is a complete power down. If I'm not mistaken, I thought there was a several day period before Extreme was back to prior performance?

And the crux of my question beyond that, is whether a quick un-plug to re-plug in would make a difference in that time period?

Wil

i don’t get why you need to unplug to re establish the handshake. Turning the back switch off is not advised as it takes so much longer to resettle as the capacitors discharge

the last time I turned off the rear switch was to install the new USB board. I have never lost the handshake between TAS and the Extreme

 

[Rhapsody]

The latest build of Roon fixes some memory leaks.

Changes for Build 970:​

• Resolved a possible memory leak appearing during audio analysis
• Resolved a possible memory leak in the connection management mechanism
• Resolved an issue of remote slowdown after a certain period of time that could end up with a UI freeze
• Resolved a crash resulting from clicking on a mapped genre name on album details
• Resolved a crash that might occur in an attempt to open the Settings page
• Resolved an issue where TIDAL / Qobuz playlist could end up with an inactive play button
• Resolved an issue where Roon wouldn’t return search results on certain Windows machines
• Additional bugfixes and stability improvements

I was wondering why my carpet was all wet.....

 

[John T]

@wil: I don't think you have a choice if you are changing power cables or going into another receptacle, in regards to turning off the rear switch.