Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

PYP · Jul 22, 2023

hopkins said:
I am listening to "The Cosmic Scene" as I write:

The Cosmic Scene - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's a damn good recording (Columbia 30th St studios, 1958) and the CD version is very good:

Duke Ellington's Spacemen - The Cosmic Scene

Consultez des crédits, des avis, des pistes et achetez 2007 CDla référence de "The Cosmic Scene" sur Discogs.

www.discogs.com

I have no idea how the vinyl sounds, and I suspect I would have to spend a small fortune in analog gear to top what I am listening to now. I prefer to pursue the route I have been on (investing in digital, and following a "minimalistic" approach) rather than go in a completely different direction at this stage. Investing in a large LP collection is not something I would ever consider undertaking either, for reason of time, money, and space.

There's nothing "synthetic" in the sound of the instruments. I believe I have gone beyond "crappy" digital, and I can enjoy listening to my system for hours without fatigue or frustration, but I am also convinced that there is more potential to unleash!

I also see no compelling evidence that investing large sums of money on digital is really going to make a significant difference at this stage. So I am just "sitting tight" and waiting to see how things play out

There are so many different competing approaches to digital today. The dust needs to settle.

I certainly understand that for collectors, who never stopped collecting, the vinyl route makes sense. Not having followed that route, streaming offers me a limitless collection. I also understand wanting to own not rent (what if Qobuz ceases to operate?).

I don't have personal knowledge of how much effort (and cost) is needed to get to a satisfactory level with vinyl (for me), but streaming does take a lot of effort and care. Perhaps as the equipment and connection methods mature, the effort will be reduced and the performance, no doubt, increased further. As it stands, streaming offers me a compelling engagement with music. So far, so good.

bonzo75 · Jul 22, 2023

PYP said:
I certainly understand that for collectors, who never stopped collecting, the vinyl route makes sense. Not having followed that route, streaming offers me a limitless collection.

You should listen to fantastic vinyl rips of great performances and recordings streamed off YouTube onto a soundbar or Sonos equivalent. Sounds better than 95 percent of systems I heard. There are countless high quality rip videos out there

PeterA · Jul 22, 2023

bonzo75 said:
You should listen to fantastic vinyl rips of great performances and recordings streamed off YouTube onto a soundbar or Sonos equivalent. Sounds better than 95 percent of systems I heard. There are countless high quality rip videos out there

Ked, what do you think explains the good sound quality of what you are describing? Is it just the quality of the original recording and vinyl front end used to create the digital copy, or is it something else?

bonzo75 · Jul 22, 2023

PeterA said:
Ked, what do you think explains the good sound quality of what you are describing? Is it just the quality of the original recording and vinyl front end used to create the digital copy, or is it something else?

i don’t know why. I just play them and I can listen all day completely involved and conducting, without listening fatigue. Any fatigue comes from conducting cardio.

These are great performances too. Their sound quality is not as good as some recordings of live performances. But they are great and the magic just kicks in. For example if you listen to the two below, I prefer the Furtwangler Schubert 9 from Vienna much more than his Berlin and some live. Is that recording? Sound capture? I can’t say unless I listen to the actual LPs next to each other, but I would rather listen to these than many systems. Similar for Toscanini which I think is on 78s. Crazy pace and drive

And anyway it’s not available on LP as far as I know just on CD

bonzo75 · Jul 22, 2023

Cgoroo on YouTube also has a great channel and he states the Garrard, Shure etc that he uses to rip

bonzo75 · Jul 22, 2023

PeterA said:
Ked, what do you think explains the good sound quality of what you are describing? Is it just the quality of the original recording and vinyl front end used to create the digital copy, or is it something else?

it is also a combination of the good recording and simplicity of play back, no interaction with anything else. These kind of speakers don’t interact with the room, so you are completely responding to the performance. Possibly nothing else bothering the mind

PYP · Jul 22, 2023

bonzo75 said:
it is also a combination of the good recording and simplicity of play back, no interaction with anything else. These kind of speakers don’t interact with the room, so you are completely responding to the performance. Possibly nothing else bothering the mind

It seems to me (my ears) that the Sonos soundbar is nicely rounded at the HF and plumps up some lower frequencies, which results in a very pleasing sound. And the Sonos app allows some kind of DSP to adjust to the room. I listened to some old Jazz recording this way (can't remember which one) and it was thoroughly enjoyable. The visual also added enjoyment for that particular recording (club venue).

bonzo75 · Jul 22, 2023

PYP said:
It seems to me (my ears) that the Sonos soundbar is nicely rounded at the HF and plumps up some lower frequencies, which results in a very pleasing sound. And the Sonos app allows some kind of DSP to adjust to the room. I listened to some old Jazz recording this way (can't remember which one) and it was thoroughly enjoyable. The visual also added enjoyment for that particular recording (club venue).

not some old jazz recording. Just hundreds of quality classical vinyl rips out there

Rexp · Jul 22, 2023

PeterA said:
Ked, what do you think explains the good sound quality of what you are describing? Is it just the quality of the original recording and vinyl front end used to create the digital copy, or is it something else?

I think it's the good original recording that comes through. This is not restricted to vinyl rips, some CD rips sound better than what is available on streaming platforms:

PeterA · Jul 22, 2023

Rexp said:
I think it's the good original recording that comes through. This is not restricted to vinyl rips, some CD rips sound better than what is available on streaming platforms:

Kedar was talking about vinyl rips sounding better on basic sounbars than on most stereos he has heard. I took that to be reflective of his thoughts about most systems.

Mike Lavigne · Jul 22, 2023

PeterA said:
Kedar was talking about vinyl rips sounding better on basic sounbars than on most stereos he has heard. I took that to be reflective of his thoughts about most systems.

i think when we hear anecdotes describing casual music listening experiences, a large grain of salt must be added for the dot connecting going on and our own automatic filling in and emotive adding on.

my wife has Sonos systems throughout the house and certainly the musical satisfaction can be off the charts. same with Sirius XM in the car when the music and the place hit it right. it has little to do with the sonics, and everything to do with how we feel.

i get tears predictably when i hear particular music that reminds me of family vacations when my kids were young. the best times of my life and the sonics don't matter a whit. our minds are powerful things.

Gregm · Jul 23, 2023

bonzo75 said:
(...) I prefer the Furtwangler Schubert 9 from Vienna much more than his Berlin and some live. Is that recording?

That makes two of us

Gregm · Jul 23, 2023

Mike Lavigne said:
(...) it has little to do with the sonics, and everything to do with how we feel.

i get tears predictably when i hear particular music that reminds me of family vacations when my kids were young. the best times of my life and the sonics don't matter a whit. our minds are powerful things.

Same here. Likewise when I hear that music playing in the distance!

Ron Resnick · Jul 23, 2023

PeterA said:
Kedar was talking about vinyl rips sounding better on basic sounbars than on most stereos he has heard.

That's called an exaggeration.

Amir · Jul 23, 2023

Good digital playback needs good CD Transport like CEC TL0 3.0 plus good digital cable.
in this market both good CD transport and good digital cable are rare.
every judgment about digital without having good transport is not accepted. good CD Transport gives you better bass, pace and real dynamics.
if you have good Transport + good digital cable + good CD Album (AAD) then you can discover the real capacity of digital.

Al M. · Jul 23, 2023

Ron Resnick said:
That's called an exaggeration.

I guess it's time for the hyperbole police.

bonzo75 · Jul 23, 2023

Ron Resnick said:
That's called an exaggeration.

Objection denied, overruled

bonzo75 · Jul 23, 2023

Mike Lavigne said:
for the dot connecting going on and our own automatic filling in and emotive adding on.

I don’t want to lose that dot in audiophile systems at all. Audio systems should enhance that dot, or retain it, not lose it. I can’t listen to a few minutes of LPs or digital in most systems. I can listen to entire concerts on vinyl rips

PeterA · Jul 23, 2023

Mike Lavigne said:
i think when we hear anecdotes describing casual music listening experiences, a large grain of salt must be added for the dot connecting going on and our own automatic filling in and emotive adding on.

my wife has Sonos systems throughout the house and certainly the musical satisfaction can be off the charts. same with Sirius XM in the car when the music and the place hit it right. it has little to do with the sonics, and everything to do with how we feel.

i get tears predictably when i hear particular music that reminds me of family vacations when my kids were young. the best times of my life and the sonics don't matter a whit. our minds are powerful things.

Ron Resnick said:
That's called an exaggeration.

Gentlemen, I was responding to Rexp because I interpreted Kadar‘s comment differently. Rather than address me, you should bring it up with Kedar.

Mike Lavigne · Jul 23, 2023

PeterA said:
I think you should address this to Kedar who made the comment.

i'm sure he read it and he can comment or not. i made my point. not wanting to get too deep into limiting the value of video/youtube/vinyl rip impressions. i have 1000 2xdsd vinyl rips i like plenty. there is zero negativity with any musical value anyone finds anywhere.

Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

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