I'm planning to order the Modi with non-metallic platter and clamp. Johnnie said he can do them both in Delrin. My question would be: is there any overwhelming sonic reason to go for the Odin instead of Thor?
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Any Bergmann "Galder" owners here ?
- Thread starter Philip O Hanlon
- Start date
OK, I found a few differences between the Odin and Thor arms
(1) The Odin arm has individual vertical supports at either side of the sliding rail and air-tube assembly
(2) To adjust VTA, users are required to adjust the levels on both sides of vertical support
(3) Additional height supporting parts on the Odin => higher metallic counts
(4) The part where headshell comes into contact with the cartridge is flat on the Thor arm, and is ridged (inverted u-shape) on the Odin arm
Can anyone explain why a ridged (inverted u-shape) headshell is better than flat?
(1) The Odin arm has individual vertical supports at either side of the sliding rail and air-tube assembly
(2) To adjust VTA, users are required to adjust the levels on both sides of vertical support
(3) Additional height supporting parts on the Odin => higher metallic counts
(4) The part where headshell comes into contact with the cartridge is flat on the Thor arm, and is ridged (inverted u-shape) on the Odin arm
Can anyone explain why a ridged (inverted u-shape) headshell is better than flat?
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I cannot vouch for the Odin, but I have happily been using the Thor for a year. My main reason was the flat head, which works better with Ortofon cartridges, which have a ridge on the head. I’ve changed to Hana recently.
VTA is very easy to adjust and can potentially be done on the fly. Cleaning inside the sleeve is simple as the arm can be removed, this also helps with swapping cartridges off the turntable. Tracking is easily done on the fly using a record with no grooves.
For me it’s a much easier arm to work with. I may borrow an Odin later to see if there is any sonic different, but my brief experience with one was it was much more difficult to set up.also, think about phono lead, I believe these are not included. I have an Atlas Custom build balanced phono lead.
VTA is very easy to adjust and can potentially be done on the fly. Cleaning inside the sleeve is simple as the arm can be removed, this also helps with swapping cartridges off the turntable. Tracking is easily done on the fly using a record with no grooves.
For me it’s a much easier arm to work with. I may borrow an Odin later to see if there is any sonic different, but my brief experience with one was it was much more difficult to set up.also, think about phono lead, I believe these are not included. I have an Atlas Custom build balanced phono lead.
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thank you for your kind input.
btw, between the choice of DIN output or RCA output for your Thor tonearm, which did you choose?
What are the theoretical sonic and practical benefits of DIN-to-RCA phono cables?
I have gone with 5 pin DIN to XLR. The arm did not come with a cable but has a small 5pin DIN to connect your choice of cable to. Similar to SME arms.
So I have DIN from the tone arm to XLR balanced into my active phono stage. It’s something that just seemed logical as I have an active balanced phono stage and this would cut down any potential noise.
The only comparison I have had to compare is the DIN to RCA I got with my SME 309 tone arm. In my limited experience it was a much cleaner sound.
If you are going with a SUT this may be more of a challenge to find one with XLR, although they are in theory balanced by their nature.
Your dealer may incl a phono cable. I had a moan and mine were kind enough to supply me with the Atlas Arran Ultra balance phono cable.
My dealer just replied. Only DIN output available. I didn't think there was any space for a pair of RCA terminals anyway...
I'll stick with my old pass labs aleph ono phonostage and see how it goes.
I'll stick with my old pass labs aleph ono phonostage and see how it goes.
I have had two Odin toneaarms on different tables now, one came with 5 pin DIN and the other (current) with RCA, so presumably you might be able to specify when you order?
Delrin platter and clamp sounds really interesting. Out of interest, why? What sort of mass difference is there likely to be in the materials? Please put up some photos when you get it.
Delrin platter and clamp sounds really interesting. Out of interest, why? What sort of mass difference is there likely to be in the materials? Please put up some photos when you get it.
I'm ordering the Thor. To me, it sounds like it is going to be problematic if I have to adjust both the left and right support in order to raise or lower vta.
I got the reply that the tonearm I'm ordering only comes with DIN output, so presumably only the Odin comes with choice of output, but not for the Thor?
I got the reply that the tonearm I'm ordering only comes with DIN output, so presumably only the Odin comes with choice of output, but not for the Thor?
I personally prefer the Thor for usability, the Odin VTA is difficult to adjust as you have to turn both screws equal amounts.
With the Thor You can easily remove the arm and clean for dust (which is very important for smooth tracking)
Johnny has told me that he can produce Odin with a flat head if requested. This helps out with Ortofon cartridges but the arm just feels overly complicated.
This is the Modi I had on loan with the Thor arm. Eventually it got replaced with the Galder and vacuum platter.
With the Thor You can easily remove the arm and clean for dust (which is very important for smooth tracking)
Johnny has told me that he can produce Odin with a flat head if requested. This helps out with Ortofon cartridges but the arm just feels overly complicated.
This is the Modi I had on loan with the Thor arm. Eventually it got replaced with the Galder and vacuum platter.
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Sounds good to me, I'm sure that you can't go wrong whatever combination you decide on. andI imagine that they both sound good, certainly I'm very pleased with mine. I didn't have any issues with setup, although my second table was set up by Johnnie Bergmann himself in my home, so I was very lucky in that regard and extremely pleased to meet him!
Hopefully you'll be impressed with your TT too!
My customized Modi/Thor is coming this week.
Thinking of getting the Lyra Kleos.
Are they a good match?
Thinking of getting the Lyra Kleos.
Are they a good match?
Congratulations, it's a lovely combo. I have not tried the Lyra on the Bergmann, but I have had good results with the Hana Umami Red, which I found to be a great match. If you can, it would certainly be worth an audition. I am also breaking in a Soundsmith Sussurro for my dealer, which sounds even better but is much more difficult to hit the sweet spot.
As mentioned above, You must keep the air bearing free of dust; any dust between the bearing and collar will affect the tracking. Get a blank 12" to adjust the tracking so the arm moves slowly into the centre whilst playing.
The headshell is fixed, so Azimuth has no adjustment; you will need to get a spacer between the cartridge and the headshell for any adjustments, or as with Ortofon cartridges, get a cartridge with a ridge. Personally, I don't think Ortofon is a good match for the Thor Tonearm.
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Thank you for your replies.
Yes, I was also looking at the Hana Umami Red, although I have yet to hear one.
Any high gloss Ferrari red like colored objects always sets my heart palpitating!
I'm inching towards the Lyra because years ago I had the Lyra Skala which I quite like.
Now it had just occurred to me that the Kleos, unlike the Skala (whose body is largely composed of non-metallic polymer materials specifically to reduce the adverse effects of eddy current), is structurally encased in metallic materials. That is something that I have always wanted to avoid. I've asked Johnnie to make Modi platter out of Delrin. Even the record weight is Delrin. Plus the fact is that the Modi plinth is also non-metallic polypropylene, made me ordered it in the first place. I was trying to do all I can to procure a turntable with as little metallic materials as possible, and now does it make sense to get a cartridge whose body structure is machined metal?
I am thinking should I buy a brand new Skala, again? (There is still some NOS here with one of the dealers I get most of the stuff from)
Your advice about the dust is quite spot on - the area that i live in can be quite dusty.
I don't understand what you meant about Otofon cartridge with a ridge. I do have an Otofon Quintet Bronze brand-new in the box on hand if don't get a higher-end cartridge in time for installation of the Modi this Saturday.
Thanks again.
That approach is counterproductive. As you move up the performance ladder, nearly all high-performing turntables are made with metal components, especially the hardest ones. To eliminate vibration and resonance, using large amounts of hard metal and applying damping where necessary is the key to building better turntables. If you're aiming for better performance, relying on materials like Delrin or other plastics for damping is the wrong move. Just look around—cheap, low-performing turntables are often made with Delrin, while the better ones are predominantly metal. This has been my experience after listening to various turntables.
Again better cartridges have metal bodies while budget ones have soft plastic or similar stuff. Just like turntables, cartridge bodies, tonearms and platters are better when made from metal. Even Koestsu line switches from wood to hard stone bodies moving up the performance ladder.
Have you got your shiny new Modi yet? I had a Modi and now have a Galder - wonderful turntables! Yours sounds really interesting, please post up some photos and impressions.
Just as an 'FYI', I have an umami red on my Signature steel Galder and think that it sounds great. Did you go with the Lyra?
Had a blast with the Soundsmith Sussurro recently. Bedding it in ready for a HiFi show. I think I have a new favourite. Comparing it with the Hana Umami Red (from memory) it has more speed and instrument separation. Hoping to borrow the Paua soon as I hunt for a replacement for my Ortofon Jubilee.
Main attraction I have with Soundsmith is their rebuild costs.
Main attraction I have with Soundsmith is their rebuild costs.
Are you seeking to replicate the sound signature of the Ortofon Jubilee but with additional sonic enhancements , Or are you looking to move elements of your vinyl replay in a different direction ?
Indeed , That was one factor , amongst a few , In my deciding upon a Suzaku ‘Red Sparrow’ recently .
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Sonic enhancements: I have shied away from the Ortofon sound, I really don't think it suits this setup. I like the Sussurro sound and, hopefully, will have on loan soon, the Paua. Possibly the Sussurro Mk2 Gold edition.
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