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Alsyvox vs. Clarisys - What are the Sonic Differences? Anyone Understand Design Differences?

heihei said:
I've now heard both in well set-up rooms - Clarisys at Florian's and Alsyvox at Bob's. The challenge is that those rooms are very different and the partnering equipment, although both solid-state throughout, also differ. As such, I'm inclined not to draw rigid conclusions but have a few loose thoughts.

The first is that they have more in common than they differ - not a revelation given the design. The speed is instantly noticeable, as is the natural flow of the music in the way it is presented (as opposed to being driven at you as is often the case with cones). Box colouration obviously doesn't exist, and bass is deep and tuneful, although with less impact than a cone.

When it comes to differences, I would say that the Alsyvox has a more "relaxed" sound. To some this may come across as more refined but I'm not sure this is the right way to view it - on an "edgy" system, for sure the Aslyvox will come across as more refined, but on a more laid-back system then the Clarisys would sound more alive. As is always the case, another example of where system matching is key.

The other difference is in aesthetics. To what extent this influences will differ from person to person, but I know that in my household Alsyvox would be an easier sell than the Clarisys.
Click to expand...
Hi
They have difference in design on the way ribbon planar acts (see my answer to Bob). Also the external filters are completely different.
About sound, relax or more alive... I prefer to say that Alsyvox is purer and Clarisys more like old Apogee, more direct (less real), because they don't have push pull design and the ribbons are not as controlled as they are on Alsyvox.
But the sound differs al to with amplifiers. I tried many amplifiers and by far the best sound is obtained withe Apurna™ amplifiers. The 2 last customers who come to listen after Munich audio show... buy the Alsyvox and have an eye on the French amplifier.
Best
Philippe
 
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PhP said:
Hi
They have difference in design on the way ribbon planar acts (see my answer to Bob). Also the external filters are completely different.
About sound, relax or more alive... I prefer to say that Alsyvox is purer and Clarisys more like old Apogee, more direct (less real), because they don't have push pull design and the ribbons are not as controlled as they are on Alsyvox.
But the sound differs al to with amplifiers. I tried many amplifiers and by far the best sound is obtained withe Apurna™ amplifiers. The 2 last customers who come to listen after Munich audio show... buy the Alsyvox and have an eye on the French amplifier.
Best
Philippe
Click to expand...
Since you are the dealer of Alsyvox, I think it is better for you to make no comments about competitive products especially with similar design. It is very distasteful.
 
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PhP said:
Hi Bob,

you're right. I represent ALSYVOX in France and some other countries in Europe. To complete for the audiophiles asking about the 2 planars differences, there is a huge difference between Alsyvox and Clarisys and also for past Apogee.
Clarisys Audio made in Vietnam. They are 100% Apogee design plus better metal frame and external crossovers.
Compared to Alsyvox they miss pushpull woofer and efficiency. Alsyvox is 93 to 95 dB, Clarisys is 88 dB with optional neodymium magnets.
Alsyvox crossovers have patent pending design so nothing can compare.
KR
Philippe
Click to expand...
That is not exactly a complete list and a bit one sided.

Driver Coherence: Alsyvox uses two different materials for their drivers. Mylar in the bass with Aluminum traces as current carriers and kapton/aluminum midranges. That is not a technically coherent design. Clarisys uses 100% identical drivers for all ranges. Kapton/Aluminum.

Driver Suspension: Alsyvox panels are attached on all 4 sides with a fixed tuning. Clarisys is fixed only on two sides with adjustable tension system to also adjust the in room response.

Efficiency the Alsyvox claims over 90db while we are slightly below that. However, that's a single sided story at 1KHz. The impedance of the Clarisys speakers are higher and more linear over frequency response. Both are easy to drive!

Crossovers: We have different philosophy. Alsyvox has potted, sealed, complex crossovers while we use 1st order very simple crossovers. For example, the current Studio Plus crossover has 2 parts in total. This means less parts In the circuit and less loss of information.

Driver weight. The mass of the drivers are lighter, the driver itself thinner in the Clarisys.

Magnet System: Clarisys uses single sided magnet System and continuesly increases the open space Infront and behind the drivers. Magnets used is N52. It would be cheaper to use lesser Neodymium magnets in a push pull configuration, but our goal is to not have metal and magnets Infront of the drivers.

Upgradeability: It is fully supported and possible to upgrade our drivers. They are modular, have Manual service tension systems. This is unique to Clarisys Audio.

Color options: all bases, covers can easily be swapped for different colors at any time. There is no upcharge for color options, and everything is possible.

Price: Clarisys Audio starts at 19950$ a pair up to 146k. For a 146k you get 5 years in house install, service and free shipping and setup.

I suggest visiting one of the many representatives and give it a listen and buy what you like the most. Enjoy your hobby and all the best.

Florian - Clarisys Audio

PS: We like Daniels work and he is a great guy. It's a different product and a different price. Some buy Clarisys and some buy Alsyvox, others buy Diptique. It's all good. The world is big enough and just buy what you like most.
 
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ClarisysAudio said:
That is not exactly a complete list and a bit one sided.

Driver Coherence: Alsyvox uses two different materials for their drivers. Mylar in the bass with Aluminum traces as current carriers and kapton/aluminum midranges. That is not a technically coherent design. Clarisys uses 100% identical drivers for all ranges. Kapton/Aluminum.

Driver Suspension: Alsyvox panels are attached on all 4 sides with a fixed tuning. Clarisys is fixed only on two sides with adjustable tension system to also adjust the in room response.

Efficiency the Alsyvox claims over 90db while we are slightly below that. However, that's a single sided story at 1KHz. The impedance of the Clarisys speakers are higher and more linear over frequency response. Both are easy to drive!

Crossovers: We have different philosophy. Alsyvox has potted, sealed, complex crossovers while we use 1st order very simple crossovers. For example, the current Studio Plus crossover has 2 parts in total. This means less parts In the circuit and less loss of information.

Driver weight. The mass of the drivers are lighter, the driver itself thinner in the Clarisys.

Magnet System: Clarisys uses single sided magnet System and continuesly increases the open space Infront and behind the drivers. Magnets used is N52. It would be cheaper to use lesser Neodymium magnets in a push pull configuration, but our goal is to not have metal and magnets Infront of the drivers.

Upgradeability: It is fully supported and possible to upgrade our drivers. They are modular, have Manual service tension systems. This is unique to Clarisys Audio.

Color options: all bases, covers can easily be swapped for different colors at any time. There is no upcharge for color options, and everything is possible.

Price: Clarisys Audio starts at 19950$ a pair up to 146k. For a 146k you get 5 years in house install, service and free shipping and setup.

I suggest visiting one of the many representatives and give it a listen and buy what you like the most. Enjoy your hobby and all the best.

Florian - Clarisys Audio

PS: We like Daniels work and he is a great guy. It's a different product and a different price. Some buy Clarisys and some buy Alsyvox, others buy Diptique. It's all good. The world is big enough and just buy what you like most.
Click to expand...
Hi Florian

Driver Coherence: Alsyvox uses two different materials for their drivers. Mylar in the bass with Aluminum traces as current carriers and kapton/aluminum midranges. That is not a technically coherent design. Clarisys uses 100% identical drivers for all ranges. Kapton/Aluminum..
No, Alysvox uses the same materials, I'm sure. All ALsyvox drivers use mylar and aluminium alloy. I have Alsyvox since 2019 and I'm Engineer in product design specialized in vibrations and materials .

Yes, each brand has his own vision of the best design (also in electronics, digital and cables).
I also know Dyptique audio.
My purpose is not to say which model is better, but to correct a lot of mistakes or confusion I red about Alsyvox, audiophiles or even dealers could write.
That said, I love dipoles since I listened to Apogee Diva some decades ago, but having the pleasure to have now no shortcuts of reliability, efficiency and also more realism.
I should say that I had a lot of electrodynamic speakers in the past, that's why I decided to represent ALsyvox in 2019.
KR
Philippe
 
adyc said:
Since you are the dealer of Alsyvox, I think it is better for you to make no comments about competitive products especially with similar design. It is very distasteful.
Click to expand...
In a thread about comparing the 2 speaker designs i would hope someone will comment honestly, even dealers ! Let the mudslinging begin ! :p
 
Gents, having recently completed a project with Auditoriums (tri-amplified with ACN-400), I can say the Auditoriums were extremely enjoyable. With the electronics used, there was no edge, rendering some of the most natural piano reproduction I have heard. Due to other duties in Munich, I could not hear the Alsyvox, but I will try to do so in the coming months. Ron has listened to each product at length and reported enjoying both immensely. I believe both systems used CH Precision amplification, albeit in different rooms.

With affiliations being what they are, it is hard to be totally unbiased. I agree that source, electronics, set-up, and room will play a big role in the experience, and those selling each product know how to extract the best from them. The excellent news for panel fans is that we have great choices, with both firms pushing the boundaries of what is possible in the modern age of ribbon dipoles!
 
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It seems that there is some confusion as it has been stated many times that Alsyvox does not use the same material for all of its drivers. It has also been stated that the material used for the Alsyvox ribbons was Kapton in the past.

Not sure where this information originated but it is incorrect inforrmation regarding both the materials that are used for the Alsyvox ribbons and the different materials that have been reported.

If you look at the Alsyvox site you will see that it clearly states and which is the case that ALL OF THE RIBBONS in the Alsyvox speakers use the EXACT same material. The material for all of the drivers is an Aluminum alloy with a mylar coating.

Our Technology - Alsyvox

FULL RANGE RIBBON LOUDSPEAKERS “they do what your mother told you that a planar speaker could never do: really deep, undistorted and powerful bass”
alsyvox.com alsyvox.com
 
adyc said:
Since you are the dealer of Alsyvox, I think it is better for you to make no comments about competitive products especially with similar design. It is very distasteful.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that it's not ok for Alsyvox representatives to talk about Clarisys but it's ok for Floiran/Clarisys to talk about Alsyvox? Trying to understand the logic, especially when the information that Florian presented in his above post regarding the Alsyvox speakers is TOTALLY INACCURATE regarding the materials that are used in the Alsyvox speakers?

Florian wrote this below-

Driver Coherence: Alsyvox uses two different materials for their drivers. Mylar in the bass with Aluminum traces as current carriers and kapton/aluminum midranges. That is not a technically coherent design. Clarisys uses 100% identical drivers for all ranges. Kapton/Aluminum.

Is it ok for Florian to write about Alsyvox with statements are not true? Again trying to understand what you feel is permissible and what is not?
 
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The short answer ,

Yes its ok for Florian to write what he wants , then Dipytique can write on Florian what they want ....!

:)

After all one is a Yankee Ribbon ( partial) copy the other an Apogee Copy ..!
 
Audiohertz2 said:
The short answer ,

Yes its ok for Florian to write what he wants , then Dipytique can write on Florian what they want ....!

:)

After all one is a Yankee Ribbon ( partial) copy the other an Apogee Copy ..!
Click to expand...
Sure anyone can write what they want but if they write something that is not accurate, especially against the competitors product ,someone with correct information surely can correct whatever has been said.

Let readers form their own opinion from what has been said.
 
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PhP said:
Hi Bob,

you're right. I represent ALSYVOX in France and some other countries in Europe. To complete for the audiophiles asking about the 2 planars differences, there is a huge difference between Alsyvox and Clarisys and also for past Apogee.
Clarisys Audio made in Vietnam. They are 100% Apogee design plus better metal frame and external crossovers.
Compared to Alsyvox they miss pushpull woofer and efficiency. Alsyvox is 93 to 95 dB, Clarisys is 88 dB with optional neodymium magnets.
Alsyvox crossovers have patent pending design so nothing can compare.
KR
Philippe
Click to expand...
They only sell neodyminum version these days. I play Studio plus with 80w tube amps with great results, so efficency is not a prolem. I am also happy to play them with Aries Cerat gear which makes it such a great partner, so musical and real, just incredible experience. I will never go back to cone speakers no matter how good they are. Alsyvox Boticelli I have heard in Munich, was great as well, but I could not say it is better or worse ten Clarisys, different room, gear and music.
 
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Speaking of Alsyvox, I am on my way to Albuquerque to pack up the Caravaggio XX that Robert Harley has been reviewing for the last four months.

Stay tuned for a fourteen page layout/review of the C XX in the July/August issue of TAS.

Once the C XX are packed into their flight cases tomorrow morning, they will be picked up tomorrow afternoon by the shipping company and begin their trip to Rhapsody Brooklyn.

We then will have both Botticelli X and Caravaggio XX available for demonstration.

Bon Voyage!
 

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As the US importer for Analysis Audio (planar-ribbon) Loudspeakers and the owner/designer of Arion Audio speakers, it's nice to read about all the passion over light membrane dipole speakers.

Having been involved in planar-ribbon design/development and designing and manufacturing our own AMT drivers I think I have a fairly decent understanding of how these transducers work. I can assure you that almost always the implementation matters more. To say all Mylar or all Kapton is better or using the same substrate is better is meaningless. There are specific reasons why an engineer or designer will choose one over the other or a combination of both. For example, Analysis uses Kapton for the M/T ribbon and Mylar for the large diaphragm. There are very specific reasons for these choices. The Arion AMT drivers use Mylar because the properties are more suitable for the application.

Interesting that one brand chose N52 Neodymium magnets. They are at the stronger end of the spectrum but are much less stable against oxidation, heat and impact. We use N45 Neodymium magnets which are only slightly less powerful but more stable across the board. We still achieve 105 dB sensitivity.
 
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What material that is used for the ribbon drivers was not the point of the discussion.

The point was made that Alsyvox used different materials for the different drivers which could have a detrimental effect to a very coherent sound.

The reality is that Alsyvox uses the exact material in all its drivers, and the only reason that I keep pointing this out is it has been mentioned several times to the contrary.

As far as I know this thread was about Clarisys and Alsyvox not Analysis Audio. Although it is a public forum, of course, and so anybody that wants to jump in and do a commercial for their brand can always do that.
 

"Alsyvox vs. Clarisys - What are the Sonic Differences? Anyone Understand Design Differences?"​

Sorry I offended you Mr. Rhapsody. I was responding to "Anyone Understand Design Differences?" in the OP title and used Analysis as an example of implementation matters. I was trying to suggest that people shouldn't get caught up in the material used for the substrate. I mentioned my background in transducer design for disclosure and so the good folks here knew where I was coming from. No commercial here, just engineering comments. Did I comment on anything subjective, like my opinion of how they sound?
 
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arion said:

"Alsyvox vs. Clarisys - What are the Sonic Differences? Anyone Understand Design Differences?"​

Sorry I offended you Mr. Rhapsody. I was responding to "Anyone Understand Design Differences?" in the OP title and used Analysis as an example of implementation matters. I was trying to suggest that people shouldn't get caught up in the material used for the substrate. I mentioned my background in transducer design for disclosure and so the good folks here knew where I was coming from. No commercial here, just engineering comments. Did I comment on anything subjective, like my opinion of how they sound?
Click to expand...
You didn’t offend me, and it’s Bob.

It was about the design differences between Alsyvox and Clarysis, NOT design differences in general.

You talked about how your magnets are better and you talked about the sensitivity of your speakers. All of that is a commercial. It is what it is.
 
Sorry Arion, I did not realize that you just joined WBF yesterday and these were your first and only posts on WBF.

Welcome to the forum.

Edit- you might want to start a thread on Analysis Audio to have those that are interested in the brand and its technology learn all about it.
 
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Rhapsody said:
Are you saying that it's not ok for Alsyvox representatives to talk about Clarisys but it's ok for Floiran/Clarisys to talk about Alsovox? Trying to understand the logic, especially when the information that Florian presented in his above post regarding the Alsyvox speakers is TOTALLY INACCURATE regarding the materials that are used in the Alsyvox speakers?

Florian wrote this below-

Driver Coherence: Alsyvox uses two different materials for their drivers. Mylar in the bass with Aluminum traces as current carriers and kapton/aluminum midranges. That is not a technically coherent design. Clarisys uses 100% identical drivers for all ranges. Kapton/Aluminum.

Is it ok for Florian to write about Alsyvox with statements are not true? Again trying to understand what you feel is permissible and what is not?
Click to expand...
PhP said:
Hi
They have difference in design on the way ribbon planar acts (see my answer to Bob). Also the external filters are completely different.
About sound, relax or more alive... I prefer to say that Alsyvox is purer and Clarisys more like old Apogee, more direct (less real), because they don't have push pull design and the ribbons are not as controlled as they are on Alsyvox.
Click to expand...
I refer only to PHP’s sound comment: less real and less controlled because it is not push pull.

If competitors only state objective facts of their competitors’ products , I am perfectly fine. Florian’s post is only about objective facts and not about sound quality of Alsyvox. If Florian states wrongly about the objectives facts of Alsyvox, you are absolute correct to point them out.

What is distasteful is to comment the sound quality of competitors products.
 
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adyc said:
I refer only to PHP’s sound comment: less real and less controlled because it is not push pull.

If competitors only state objective facts of their competitors’ products , I am perfectly fine. Florian’s post is only about objective facts and not about sound quality of Alsyvox. If Florian states wrongly about the objectives facts of Alsyvox, you are absolute correct to point them out.

What is distasteful is to comment the sound quality of competitors products.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
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Alsyvox are undoutably one of the great loudspeakers. Both brands are different. End of story.
With equally good electronics and room in sure both brands can play at a high level. As mentioned by others at the show isnt ideal.
I have heard Clarisys at the most recent few editions of Munich. This year I heard the little ones in a terrible room.
I found it a bit flat and couldn't connect with it. Some nice tube gear would of been good to hear with it.
Last year Alsyvox with the top Lampi dac was more pleasing to my ears than this year without the Lampi.
I first heard Alsyvox at the marriott a few years ago with the 4 panel arrangement alongside the top Omega Audio electronics. It captivated me. A sound like no other.
Heres a nice review of the Alsyvox. Goto page 96.
Enjoy :)
www.theabsolutesound.com

TAS Issue 350 July/August - The Absolute Sound

www.theabsolutesound.com www.theabsolutesound.com
 
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